Goodman Games

Fan Forums
It is currently Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:33 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 21 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Party composition & different roles
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:47 pm 
Offline
Mighty-Thewed Reaver
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:28 am
Posts: 357
Ok, we all know optimal composition for most adventures is warrior, wizard, cleric, thief.

My group with little help on my part managed to get out of the funnel with one dwarf, one cleric, one wizard and one thief.

I was wondering: if a PC dies (it's probable at least one is going to die in the boss battle they're about to face..), i decided to have the player roll 3d6 stats in order again to create a new character of the same level -1.
But if the character who died was a thief, should the new PC be a thief as well, to fill the void in the party roles coverage?! This way unless more than one PC dies in the same session, players will always have to play the same class.
Also, stats rolled for the new PC might not be right for the intended class.

I'm tending towards letting players pick whatever class best fits their new stats, without paying too much attention to party roles.
But should i tweak adventures and challenges differently (like... less traps if no thief) to conform with the new party or should i just leave them as they are: having 2 warriors will make the party stronger in frontal fights, this makes up for not having a rogue when you need it?

Thanks for anyone so kind to help :roll:

_________________
Author of Arcanix RPG - fantasy medieval d6 system
learn more :
http://arcanixrpg.webs.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Party composition & different roles
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:34 pm 
Offline
Mighty-Thewed Reaver
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 6:00 pm
Posts: 304
Location: Virginia
Maybe have them roll up 3 sets of stats, and then let them choose the one they want to play.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Party composition & different roles
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:19 am 
Offline
Mighty-Thewed Reaver
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:28 am
Posts: 357
dunbruha wrote:
Maybe have them roll up 3 sets of stats, and then let them choose the one they want to play.

but then again, should the new PC be of the class the party is missing (eg: if a warrior dies, you need a warrior/dwarf, if a wizard dies you want another wizard/elf to take his place..)?

_________________
Author of Arcanix RPG - fantasy medieval d6 system
learn more :
http://arcanixrpg.webs.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Party composition & different roles
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:16 am 
Offline
Cold-Hearted Immortal
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:42 am
Posts: 2263
Location: Chicago suburbs
Reminds me of those scenes from "The Gamers" where the one wizard dies, the player creates a new wizard, and the party keeps calling him by the old name. :P

You bring out a tricky point.
1. If the guy who dies gets to pick, it gives him a bit of an advantage over players whose characters didn't die. I can foresee a few of my players trying to die just to switch.
2. On the other hand, I hate to see anyone get locked into a class forever. The thief dies so you have to play another thief. And another. And another. And another.
3. Along those same lines, if the player gets a random character roll there is no guarantee that it would make for a good thief.

I'd be tempted to let the dice determine replacement characters and modify the adventure if needed. Or, if he wants an "identical" character let him roll 3 times and pick the stats that most closely fit, but give him the same background. Maybe re-roll the birth-luck thing, however, to make him slightly different.

_________________
Marv / Finarvyn
DCC Minister of Propaganda; Deputized 6/8/11
Image
DCC RPG playtester 2011, C&C playtester 2003,T&T since 2003,
ADRP Since 1993, OD&D player since 1975

"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
-- Gary Gygax
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
-- Dave Arneson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Party composition & different roles
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:18 am 
Offline
Cold-Hearted Immortal
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:30 pm
Posts: 1111
Location: In a galaxy far, far, away (Missouri)
Akb108,

It's my philosophy that the game is to have fun with one's friends. If your group doesn't want, or is unable to play, all the classes you think are necessary to complete quests, fix it. Either tone down the elements that are beyond the PCs abilities or provide them a way to best the problem, or at least attempt to best the problem.

I do this by:

1) Remove the impossible in the adventure. For example, if no one is playing a thief, traps that cannot be avoided without a thief is toned down, removed, or already set off. Of course, having them hire an NPC thief is also a viable option.

2) Replace the missing PC with either an NPC (as mentioned above) or with items that will aid in filling the role. For example, the group I'm DMing is venturing in G3-The Hall of the Fire Giant King. They have no cleric, so I've been insuring a steady stream of cure potions. Of course, Gary Gygax also has had several rings of wishes about which will aid them to bring back dead PCs. Another example, the same gang is also adventuring with lower level PCs in various DCCs. When they tackled Harley's short module in DCC # 29, they needed a thief but they have a ranger, an archer, and a cleric/magic-user. I had a NPC thief come with them. He died, but got them past the trap that only a thief had any real hope of overcoming.

3) Have them find a near artifact item that is intelligent and can fill in for the missing PC. For example, have them find a mithral set of thieves picks and tools. These tools are possessed by the ghost of a notorious cat burglar. This ghost could aid them in overcoming locks and traps, but for some sort of price.

The game is about fun, not about filling roles. Enjoy it!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Party composition & different roles
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:23 am 
Offline
Cold-Hearted Immortal
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:42 am
Posts: 2263
Location: Chicago suburbs
JediOre is wise. Great suggestions! 8)

_________________
Marv / Finarvyn
DCC Minister of Propaganda; Deputized 6/8/11
Image
DCC RPG playtester 2011, C&C playtester 2003,T&T since 2003,
ADRP Since 1993, OD&D player since 1975

"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
-- Gary Gygax
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
-- Dave Arneson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Party composition & different roles
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:53 am 
Offline
Mighty-Thewed Reaver
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:28 am
Posts: 357
finarvyn wrote:
JediOre is wise. Great suggestions! 8)

Thanks to you both for the suggestions. We are mostly on the same psychic waves :roll:

I say mostly because i was wondering if the rule

"when a PC dies, have the player roll another 6 stats in order, roll 1d6 (1-2-3:human, 4:elf, 5:dwarf, 6:halfling) and choose a class for those stats."

could be a way of keeping some sort of funnel, high mortality in levels past 0.

For example:
  • Group A is perfectly balanced (warr, wiz, thief, cler)
  • Thief dies in combat. The new character that takes its place is a Dwarf.
  • Group A' is therefore composed of Dwarf,Warrior,Wizard, Cleric.
  • Since there's no Thief, traps are deadlier;
  • Cleric dies falling in a pit. The new character is an Elf.
  • Group A'' is now composed of Dwarf, Warrior, Wizard and Elf.
  • The group has no access to healing and no trap-finding. They're likely to suffer more losses.
  • Eventually, someone will roll and get a Thief or a Cleric again.

_________________
Author of Arcanix RPG - fantasy medieval d6 system
learn more :
http://arcanixrpg.webs.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Party composition & different roles
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:32 am 
Offline
Cold-Hearted Immortal
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:30 pm
Posts: 1111
Location: In a galaxy far, far, away (Missouri)
abk108 wrote:
finarvyn wrote:
JediOre is wise. Great suggestions! 8)

Thanks to you both for the suggestions. We are mostly on the same psychic waves :roll:

I say mostly because i was wondering if the rule. . .



Rule? RULE? We don't need no stinking rule. I look at rules in these sort of games more like suggestions. And boy did this concept get me in trouble with 3.X. Those are truly rules. Maybe that's why I found it so difficult to play 3.X.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Party composition & different roles
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:50 am 
Offline
Chaos-Summoning Sorcerer

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:28 am
Posts: 779
abk108 wrote:
"when a PC dies, have the player roll another 6 stats in order, roll 1d6 (1-2-3:human, 4:elf, 5:dwarf, 6:halfling) and choose a class for those stats."

How about d24: 1-3 Cleric, 4-6 Warrior, 7-9 Thief, 10-12 Wizard, 13-16 Dwarf, 17-20 Elf, 21-24 Halfling?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Party composition & different roles
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:20 pm 
Offline
Mighty-Thewed Reaver
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:28 am
Posts: 357
jmucchiello wrote:
abk108 wrote:
"when a PC dies, have the player roll another 6 stats in order, roll 1d6 (1-2-3:human, 4:elf, 5:dwarf, 6:halfling) and choose a class for those stats."

How about d24: 1-3 Cleric, 4-6 Warrior, 7-9 Thief, 10-12 Wizard, 13-16 Dwarf, 17-20 Elf, 21-24 Halfling?


That way you lose that kind of "advantage" that has human characters choosing their class, while demihumans may have extra abilities but have no choice...

JediOre wrote:
abk108 wrote:
finarvyn wrote:
JediOre is wise. Great suggestions! 8)

Thanks to you both for the suggestions. We are mostly on the same psychic waves :roll:

I say mostly because i was wondering if the rule. . .



Rule? RULE? We don't need no stinking rule. I look at rules in these sort of games more like suggestions. And boy did this concept get me in trouble with 3.X. Those are truly rules. Maybe that's why I found it so difficult to play 3.X.


I called it rule but i didn't mean it has to be adamant! I just meant :
"if I said to my players to roll 3d6 stats in order, 1d6 to determine race, and then if human to pick a class (without paying attention to which roles are covered and which not) , could this work as in.... (read example) to have some kind of darwinian "evolution of party", where only the more suitable party survives or has to adapt (shedding useless party members, getting new ones) until it becomes suitable?"

_________________
Author of Arcanix RPG - fantasy medieval d6 system
learn more :
http://arcanixrpg.webs.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Party composition & different roles
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:03 pm 
Offline
Mighty-Thewed Reaver
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 6:00 pm
Posts: 304
Location: Virginia
abk108 wrote:
dunbruha wrote:
Maybe have them roll up 3 sets of stats, and then let them choose the one they want to play.

but then again, should the new PC be of the class the party is missing (eg: if a warrior dies, you need a warrior/dwarf, if a wizard dies you want another wizard/elf to take his place..)?

I think that the funnel is fun for beginning an adventure, but after it started, I would let the player choose what race/class to play. I would have them roll 3d6 six times, and arrange them however they wanted based on what class they wanted to play. And if they decide not to play another thief, then fine, that's what happens. I wouldn't modify the adventure based on party composition (but any adventure I run has multiple ways of achieving a specific objective...).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Party composition & different roles
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:05 am 
Offline
Hard-Bitten Adventurer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:35 pm
Posts: 133
Location: Travelling the Otherworld
dunbruha wrote:
I think that the funnel is fun for beginning an adventure, but after it started, I would let the player choose what race/class to play. I would have them roll 3d6 six times, and arrange them however they wanted based on what class they wanted to play. And if they decide not to play another thief, then fine, that's what happens. I wouldn't modify the adventure based on party composition (but any adventure I run has multiple ways of achieving a specific objective...).

+d14. Agreed, after the chaotic fun of a L0 adventure/character or two the novelty seems to fade and the players I have wanna get on with the play and development of their characters.

Havn't had anyone get to L2 yet in my mini campaign but I have decided that any new characters will start out one level lower than the dead PC they are replacing. So if you lose a 0 or 1st Level dude then roll up a few more 0 Levels and funnel them. If a 2nd level dies then that player will get a 1st level cha to replace them. And like dunbruha I think 3d6 six times arranged in order is both a fair way, and still in keeping with the thrust of the game for these replacements.

However, didn't I see someplace on these forums that Mr G. Stated that replacement 1st levels or above would NOT get the added d4 hp from their 0 level experience? Not much but still (if I am recalling correctly) that is a reasonable incentive to go back and try and make a L0 live thru a pilot adventure? (I shall hate myself if it was mentioned earlier in this tread! :? )

_________________
{Standard Disclaimer} If it was mentioned already and I missed it, please put this down to my advanced age and senility rather than discourtesy!
My DCC spell work page is here https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1x_NmKhGbZLBukbWH78qR-38ebmMULEIbz1vt64YaILM


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Party composition & different roles
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:07 pm 
Offline
Hard-Bitten Adventurer

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 8:18 pm
Posts: 135
What about generating four 0-level characters and then leveling up the one you like the most based on all those rolls? (As if they all survived the funnel) Kinda time consuming but it might help to distinguish and randomize the new character while giving the player a bit of choice.

_________________
http://neradia.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Party composition & different roles
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:09 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:04 pm
Posts: 757
Location: Los Angeles
Ducaster wrote:

However, didn't I see someplace on these forums that Mr G. Stated that replacement 1st levels or above would NOT get the added d4 hp from their 0 level experience? Not much but still (if I am recalling correctly) that is a reasonable incentive to go back and try and make a L0 live thru a pilot adventure? (I shall hate myself if it was mentioned earlier in this tread! :? )


Actually, not true. You still have to roll the 0-level character stuff (d4 hp, copper, occupation, items, etc.) before they level. There aren't any rules for start GP above 0-level, though. I suggest 3d6 x10 gp at 1st.

_________________
Reverend Dakota Jesus Ultimak, S.S.M.o.t.S.M.S., D.M.

(Dungeon) Master In Chief of Crawl! fanzine. - http://www.crawlfanzine.com/

"[...] there is no doubt that Dungeons and Dragons and its imitators are right out of the pit of hell." - William Schnoebelen, Straight talk on Dungeons & Dragons


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Party composition & different roles
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:00 pm 
Offline
Chaos-Summoning Sorcerer

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:28 am
Posts: 779
caveman wrote:
What about generating four 0-level characters and then leveling up the one you like the most based on all those rolls? (As if they all survived the funnel) Kinda time consuming but it might help to distinguish and randomize the new character while giving the player a bit of choice.

I kinda like that. But only 3 0-level chars are needed, I think.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Party composition & different roles
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:28 am 
Offline
Mighty-Thewed Reaver
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:28 am
Posts: 357
reverenddak wrote:
Ducaster wrote:

However, didn't I see someplace on these forums that Mr G. Stated that replacement 1st levels or above would NOT get the added d4 hp from their 0 level experience? Not much but still (if I am recalling correctly) that is a reasonable incentive to go back and try and make a L0 live thru a pilot adventure? (I shall hate myself if it was mentioned earlier in this tread! :? )


Actually, not true. You still have to roll the 0-level character stuff (d4 hp, copper, occupation, items, etc.) before they level. There aren't any rules for start GP above 0-level, though. I suggest 3d6 x10 gp at 1st.


Check page 56 of Beta doc, you'll find a table for starting cash for levels 1-3

It depends on class, like 5d12 for a warrior, 4d20 for a cleric, or 3d10 for a thief. Anyway, a lot less than you thought ;)

_________________
Author of Arcanix RPG - fantasy medieval d6 system
learn more :
http://arcanixrpg.webs.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Party composition & different roles
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:25 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:04 pm
Posts: 757
Location: Los Angeles
abk108 wrote:
Check page 56 of Beta doc, you'll find a table for starting cash for levels 1-3

It depends on class, like 5d12 for a warrior, 4d20 for a cleric, or 3d10 for a thief. Anyway, a lot less than you thought ;)


Oh! I knew I saw it somewhere, couldn't find it, and just figured that I mixed it up with one of many OSR games... But yeah, it's considerably less. Nice catch!

_________________
Reverend Dakota Jesus Ultimak, S.S.M.o.t.S.M.S., D.M.

(Dungeon) Master In Chief of Crawl! fanzine. - http://www.crawlfanzine.com/

"[...] there is no doubt that Dungeons and Dragons and its imitators are right out of the pit of hell." - William Schnoebelen, Straight talk on Dungeons & Dragons


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Party composition & different roles
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:14 pm 
Offline
Mighty-Thewed Reaver
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:28 am
Posts: 357
reverenddak wrote:
abk108 wrote:
Check page 56 of Beta doc, you'll find a table for starting cash for levels 1-3

It depends on class, like 5d12 for a warrior, 4d20 for a cleric, or 3d10 for a thief. Anyway, a lot less than you thought ;)


Oh! I knew I saw it somewhere, couldn't find it, and just figured that I mixed it up with one of many OSR games... But yeah, it's considerably less. Nice catch!


Don't worry :lol: I have almost photographic memory, I could recall seeing a chart for that on the same page of a weapon rack :roll:

_________________
Author of Arcanix RPG - fantasy medieval d6 system
learn more :
http://arcanixrpg.webs.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Party composition & different roles
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:37 am 
Offline
Mighty-Thewed Reaver
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:13 am
Posts: 376
Location: Newcastle, England
abk108 wrote:
Ok, we all know optimal composition for most adventures is warrior, wizard, cleric, thief.

From my experience it's usually a bunch of wizards, with henchmen in tow - whatever the edition.

_________________
Sean Wills


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Party composition & different roles
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:57 am 
Offline
Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:01 pm
Posts: 34
geordie racer wrote:
From my experience it's usually a bunch of wizards, with henchmen in tow - whatever the edition.

A bunch of wizards with henchmen in FRONT.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Party composition & different roles
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:44 am 
Offline
Mighty-Thewed Reaver
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:28 am
Posts: 357
Eldric IV wrote:
geordie racer wrote:
From my experience it's usually a bunch of wizards, with henchmen in tow - whatever the edition.

A bunch of wizards with henchmen in FRONT.


LOL, sorry, i didn't take that option into account, i don't play with henchmen if i can do without. :P Instead of playing 4 wizards and then have some NPC set off traps, serve as a meatshield or as a healbot, i'd rather have one PC for each.. :roll:

_________________
Author of Arcanix RPG - fantasy medieval d6 system
learn more :
http://arcanixrpg.webs.com


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 21 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group