Beta Testing Questions from my group.

[brogan_a]

Ok so here are some observations from my group:

1 - If you can burn luck before or after you roll, why would you burn before you roll? If you wait to see your roll you can then burn the exact amount of luck and not worry about wasting any.

2 - When a character dies due to reaching 0 or less HP and no one heals him in time, there is a check the character can make after the battle, basically you are rolled over and someone tries to shake you awake. Can luck be used to make this roll successful?

3 - Is there any roll you can make during play where you CAN'T use luck?

4 - Do you need a patron to Spellburn?

that is all for now, we love it so far!

- Andy Brogan

[rabindranath72]

I can partly answer for 1-
usually you don't know the DC, so even looking at the dice outcome is not completely helpful.
You are right though, in the fact that regardless of the DC, if one can have a look at the outcome it's always better to look at the dice, so deciding before the roll is practically useless.

[abk108]

I can partly answer for 1-
usually you don't know the DC, so even looking at the dice outcome is not completely helpful.
You are right though, in the fact that regardless of the DC, if one can have a look at the outcome it's always better to look at the dice, so deciding before the roll is practically useless.

I would houserule it so that luck can be spent only before the roll.
If it is a roll that involves a clear success/failure scenario (like a skill check, attack roll, save throw, spell check, but NOT a crit/fumble table roll) and you fail no matter the luck burned, you get back half of what you burned rounded down.

[finarvyn]

I would houserule it so that luck can be spent only before the roll.

I believe that's the official interpretation as well, so you don't need to house rule it!

The idea isn't to fail and then somehow slither out of it. The idea is to decide if a task is really hard and you really want to suceed then you burn luck to help the roll.

Once you know the result of the die roll, spending luck would lose all of the drama of the action.

[meinvt]

I would houserule it so that luck can be spent only before the roll.

I believe that's the official interpretation as well, so you don't need to house rule it!

The idea isn't to fail and then somehow slither out of it. The idea is to decide if a task is really hard and you really want to suceed then you burn luck to help the roll.

Once you know the result of the die roll, spending luck would lose all of the drama of the action.

Finarvyn, you've stated this a couple times in the forums, but the rules are quite clear the luck can be spent before or after the roll. Has there been a clarification that the rules are in error?

To put a fine point on it, I think spending luck before the roll is far too weak and like the rule as written. I'd be okay with giving a slight bonus to 'pre-emptive' spending however. I also don't generally tell players a creature's AC or HP or a check DC, so even when they spend luck they don't always know exactly how much to spend.

Say you have an essential roll to make (like hitting a creature). Your base chance is about 25% (you think you need about a 15 or 16 on a d20). You have a luck score of 12. If you miss you may be able to try again next turn. On a luck before rolls rule table you might spend six luck and roll a 7. Still a miss and now your luck is horribly depleted. You can roll with six luck again (reducing to 0), but still have a 45% chance of failure. Or you can use all 12 luck (what player would do this knowing there is another way out)?

On a post roll luck table it becomes a resource you consider using. When you get a 7 on your first roll you shrug and hope to live. If you get a 13 on the next turn you spend 3 luck and get a hit. I think that is more than fair.

I'm making sure that every character has to roll luck for something at least once or twice an adventure. So, depleting this ability just to make rolls isn't always good policy.

[abk108]

I'm making sure that every character has to roll luck for something at least once or twice an adventure. So, depleting this ability just to make rolls isn't always good policy.

I completely agree with this. Luck is an ability, and as such it should get to be considered a precious thing, just like Strength and Intelligence; it's not just a "pool" of extra points

[finarvyn]

I would houserule it so that luck can be spent only before the roll.

I believe that's the official interpretation as well, so you don't need to house rule it!

Finarvyn, you've stated this a couple times in the forums, but the rules are quite clear the luck can be spent before or after the roll. Has there been a clarification that the rules are in error?

Meinvt, you caught me. It's my memory which is in error.

I double-checked with Joseph. Spellburn must be done before the roll, but luckburn can happen before or after.

[nanstreet]

Burning luck after the roll seems like the smart way to do it. It occured to me that that puts Thieves in an interesting position. They get more luck points than anyone, but the ammount is random unlike for other characters. They could burn enough for a guaranteed outcome, or risk that the luck die will roll high enough. They seem to be the only class where luck is a gamble when it is spent.

[talmor]

I'm going to try a houserule of "+2 bonus for ever 1 point of luck burned" if spent before the roll, "1 for 1 if you spend afterward." This might be a tad unbalancing, but I want to encourage spending before hand.

Haven't had a chance to test it out in game yet.

[smathis]

Burning luck after the roll seems like the smart way to do it.

This is the way I've been doing it. It fits most naturally, IMO. The permanent loss of Luck would make a "before" declaration horrible... just really, really horrible. Think about it if you spent 10 points of Luck for something really important and failed and couldn't do anything about it.

That would suck.

And not in a "we're macho and old-school way" but in a "this just really blows" way.

[abk108]

I'm going to try a houserule of "+2 bonus for ever 1 point of luck burned" if spent before the roll, "1 for 1 if you spend afterward." This might be a tad unbalancing, but I want to encourage spending before hand.

Haven't had a chance to test it out in game yet.

I did think of this option as well before, but i think you risk people getting insane bonuses. In this game, DCs are very low, so are ACs in general (if compared to 3E, where the basic kobold has 14-15!). Spending 3 points of Luck before the roll to get a +6 is something that would really make your roll almost a sure hit/success.
Maybe giving Luckburn+1 if spent before might be more balanced.
However, I resolved to give back half the amount spent (rounded down) if the roll is unsuccessful. (thus getting close to the 2/1 ratio you suggested)

[moes1980]

I actually tell my players by how much they failed a roll and let them decide if they want to burn the luck rather than let them guess. The reason is that burning luck really, really hurts and other than the thief and halfling, pcs don't get those points back just by resting. Also, I house ruled it even further, and I let my players use luck to modify monster to hit roles to avoid being hit. That might sound crazy powerful but again, for most classes, those luck points don't come back and before to long, you have a penalty modifer to listen checks, crit table roles, and fumble rolls, and what ever ability is tied to your luck bonus that rolled at character creation (this way did allow for the level one cleric and fighter to avoid getting killed in my playtests, but the cleric now has a -1 to lay on hands and the fighter has a -1 to attacks with his lucky weapon (long sword) and -5 speed cause of his "wild child trait.")

Giving more options to burn those luck points just means more hurt for the characters down the road if they take advantage of them (which they are more likely to do if they know that spending x amount will avoid damage or land a blow).

And I don't worry about the thief and halfling becuase, well, I think the halfling needs a little bit more umph and the thief gets a double whammy by getting penalties to his crit rolls which is what he gets when he backstabs. So I think it all works out ok or, at least it has so far.

Just my two cents