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 Post subject: Multiple Mighty Deeds
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:22 pm 
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Deft-Handed Cutpurse

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The description of the warrior indicates that you can declare a Mighty Deed with each attack. It also says that you roll one Attack die and use it for both of your attacks that turn when at 4th or 5th level. This means that if you get a high attack die result you can essentially choose a Mighty Deed knowing its level of effectiveness if it hits. For that matter, you can choose the target of your second attack knowing whether you'll be getting a +1 or +6 from the attack die roll first.

I don't think it would slow things down too much to just roll this die over again for each attack, and would fix a number of problems.

Also, on page 32 the last sentence says the warrior gets a second attack with his second attack die. This should say with his second action die.


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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Mighty Deeds
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:56 pm 
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meinvt wrote:
It also says that you roll one Attack die and use it for both of your attacks that turn when at 4th or 5th level.

It does? Why would the game discourage rolling the attack die twice? What could that possibly save?


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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Mighty Deeds
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:26 pm 
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Wild-Eyed Zealot

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You don't roll one attack and then the other... the whole beauty of the zocchi dice is you can roll it all at once.

Warrior (some level I'm not looking at charts!) declares I am going to disarm the first orc and then try to stab his buddy. Roll d20 (first action die) + d16 (second action die) + d7 (Attack die) and then look at results.

d20 =3, d16 = 15, d7 = 7.

So first attack is a total of 10 and misses - no chance at the MDoA, the second attack is a 22 and hits for weapon damage + 7.


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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Mighty Deeds
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:36 pm 
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Deft-Handed Cutpurse

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Is it mandated that you declare both actions and roll at the same time? Because in my experience often the players will want to direct their second attack at the primary target, unless the first attack kills it. I think in most cases I'd see my group rolling the first attack before deciding what to do with the second die. I'm good with the idea that they all need to be declared and rolled at once though!


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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Mighty Deeds
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:16 pm 
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Chaos-Summoning Sorcerer

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meinvt wrote:
Is it mandated that you declare both actions and roll at the same time? Because in my experience often the players will want to direct their second attack at the primary target, unless the first attack kills it. I think in most cases I'd see my group rolling the first attack before deciding what to do with the second die. I'm good with the idea that they all need to be declared and rolled at once though!

This is my experience. For elves it is even more important, I'm not going to declare an attack and cast a spell. I don't know that I will need the spell after the attack (or vice versa).


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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Mighty Deeds
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:20 pm 
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meinvt wrote:
The description of the warrior indicates that you can declare a Mighty Deed with each attack. It also says that you roll one Attack die and use it for both of your attacks that turn when at 4th or 5th level.

I'd have to look into this more, becasue something is either being mis-interpreted or is a typo. Page 32 of the Beta rules notes that a 4th level Warrior gets two action dice, a d20 and a d14. I'll be darned if I can see how one die roll of either a d20 or a d14 can be both a d20 and a d14 at the same time.

I think the rules suggest that one roll works for both the attack and the mighty deed, not that one roll works for both actions.

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"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
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"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Mighty Deeds
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:02 pm 
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Deft-Handed Cutpurse

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Again the action vs. attack die terminology confusion strikes. At fifth level the attack die is a d7. You roll it and add it to your action die total on each attack. As written, if you roll a d20+d7 and get 12+7 you have a 19 (plus other modifiers) for your first result. You then keep the 7 on the attack die and will need to roll a d14 for your other action. Knowing that you have a +7+other modifiers before rolling the d14 seems wrong to me for a couple reasons.

That is why I think the rule either needs to be that all action attempts for the turn are declared before any dice are rolled, or you should reroll the attack die for each attack. The first has the problem that sometimes a character will do a nonsensical action, like casting a spell at a dead adversary because the first half of their action worked as an elf. Of course, you could interpret this as the fun in the game. Still, I'm advocating for the latter approach and just re-rolling attack die with each attack.


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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Mighty Deeds
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:26 pm 
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meinvt wrote:
Again the action vs. attack die terminology confusion strikes. At fifth level the attack die is a d7. You roll it and add it to your action die total on each attack. As written, if you roll a d20+d7 and get 12+7 you have a 19 (plus other modifiers) for your first result. You then keep the 7 on the attack die and will need to roll a d14 for your other action. Knowing that you have a +7+other modifiers before rolling the d14 seems wrong to me for a couple reasons.

That is why I think the rule either needs to be that all action attempts for the turn are declared before any dice are rolled, or you should reroll the attack die for each attack. The first has the problem that sometimes a character will do a nonsensical action, like casting a spell at a dead adversary because the first half of their action worked as an elf. Of course, you could interpret this as the fun in the game. Still, I'm advocating for the latter approach and just re-rolling attack die with each attack.


yup, that's what's happening here. I've already gotten use to the difference between an Attack Die (only Warriors and Dwarfs have them) and Action die (the d20 you roll to attack, among OTHER THINGS.) Class Die is would totally eliminate the confusion.

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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Mighty Deeds
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:28 pm 
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Perhaps the "attack die" should be called a "bonus die" because it represents a to-hit bonus and a damage bonus.

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Marv / Finarvyn
DCC Minister of Propaganda; Deputized 6/8/11
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DCC RPG playtester 2011, C&C playtester 2003,T&T since 2003,
ADRP Since 1993, OD&D player since 1975

"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
-- Gary Gygax
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
-- Dave Arneson


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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Mighty Deeds
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:41 pm 
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A Bonus Die was my first suggestion (in one of the other MDoA threads!), I think the Class Die is better.

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Reverend Dakota Jesus Ultimak, S.S.M.o.t.S.M.S., D.M.

(Dungeon) Master In Chief of Crawl! fanzine. - http://www.crawlfanzine.com/

"[...] there is no doubt that Dungeons and Dragons and its imitators are right out of the pit of hell." - William Schnoebelen, Straight talk on Dungeons & Dragons


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 Post subject: Re: Multiple Mighty Deeds
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:41 pm 
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reverenddak wrote:
A Bonus Die was my first suggestion (in one of the other MDoA threads!), I think the Class Die is better.

None of the folks with access to the whole game have commented on my Class Die idea. I suspect it is still under debate. I also suspect they don't want such a uniform concept across classes and are resisting it. I'm hoping the don't reject it.


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