Starting languages

[viktor_haag]

The starting language allotments for the racial classes seems odd. All classes know common, but racial classes know their own racial languages if their INT is 8+? That seems backwards. Why not have the racial classes know their own racial languages, and common if they have an INT 8+ instead?

I do realize this makes including one in a party a bit more problematic, and that the "common tongue" is really a mechanical conceit to aid game play and not tremendously sensible to begin with, but a lot of people portray it as the campaign area's "lingua franca" and in that case it seems odd that Elves, Dwarves, and so forth would have common but not "their own tongues"...

[jmucchiello]

And where is Appendix L?

[reverenddak]

The starting language allotments for the racial classes seems odd. All classes know common, but racial classes know their own racial languages if their INT is 8+? That seems backwards. Why not have the racial classes know their own racial languages, and common if they have an INT 8+ instead?

I'm sure it's function of practicality over realism. Language plays heavily in some Appendix N stuff, Princess of Mars comes to mind. It would also play heavily in a politically charged game too. But I'm sure that's not where DCC RPG wants to go.

[reverenddak]

And where is Appendix L?

hehe, it's right after Appendix K!

[kataskicana]

Joseph stated that the Beta document was NOT the full rules. It does not include spells above level 1 or all the appendixes.

Languages are one of those things that will be totally campaign dependent anyway. I don't think anyone is Shadizar spoke Orc since they don't exist!

[Sizzaxe]

I too thought it odd initially, but it is immanently practical. And of course this is a detail that could be handled campaign wise.

[goodmangames]

And where is Appendix L?

It's on my manuscript on my computer. What, you don't have a copy??

Here is the primary content of Appendix L. I can't get this table to format correctly but you get the idea. If I can figure out the formatting I'll circle back and try to make it display correctly...

Code: Select all

Appendix L: Languages
All characters begin the game knowing the Common tongue. More intelligent characters know additional languages: for every point of Int modifier, a character learns one more language. Finally, some characters may also learn more languages when they advance to level 1 in a class, as noted below:
Wizard: automatically know two additional languages for every point of Int modifier, meaning that when they advance from level 0 to level 1, they roll an additional language for every point of Int modifier in addition to the languages they knew at level 1.
Thief: automatically learn thieves’ cant at level 1.
Elf, dwarf, and halfling: at level 1, demi-humans learn one additional language beyond Common, their racial language, and the languages earned by Int modifiers.
Warrior, cleric: do not earn any additional languages when advancing from level 0 to level 1. However, they may learn languages due to magic or improved ability scores, so their class entries are also included below.
Known languages are randomly determined by rolling d% on the table below:
Language	% Chance to Know Language, by Class
	0-Level Human†	Warrior	Cleric	Thief	Wizard	Halfling	Elf	Dwarf
Alignment tongue*	01-20	01-20	01-20	01-15	01-10	01-25	01-20	01-20
Chaos**	–	–	–	16-20	11-13	–	21-25	–
Law**	–	–	–	21-25	14-16	–	26-30	–
Neutrality**	–	–	–	26-30	17-19	–	31-35	–
Dwarf	21-30	21-30	21-25	31-32	20-21	26-35	36-40	–
Elf	31-35	31-35	26-30	33-34	22-23	36-40	–	21-25
Halfling	36-40	36-38	31-35	35-44	24-25	–	41-45	26-35
Gnome	41-45	–	36-40	45-49	26-27	41-50	–	36-40
Bugbear	46-47	39-43	41-45	50-54	28-29	51-55	–	41-45
Goblin	48-57	44-53	46-55	55-64	30-35	56-70	46-48	46-55
Gnoll	58-60	54-58	56-60	65-69	36-39	–	49-50	56-60
Harpy	–	59-63	–	70-71	40-41	–	51-52	–
Hobgoblin	61-65	64-70	61-65	72-74	42-45	71-80	53-54	61-65
Kobold	66-65	71-78	66-75	75-78	46-49	81-90	55-57	66-75
Lizard man	76-80	79-81	76-78	79	50-53	–	58	–
Minotaur	81	82-83	–	–	54-55	–	59	76
Ogre	82-83	84-88	79-80	–	56-57	–	60	77-81
Orc	84-93	89-95	81-82	–	58-62	–	61-63	82-86
Serpent-man	–	96	83	80-81	63-65	–	64	–
Troglodyte	94-99	97-98	84-88	82-83	66-68	–	65	87-91
Angelic (a.k.a. Celestial)	–	–	89-92	–	69-72	–	66-70	–
Centaur	–	–	93	–	73	–	71-75	–
Demonic (a.k.a. Infernal or Abyssal)	–	–	94-97	84	74-79	–	76-80	–
Doppelganger	–	–	–	85	80	–	–	–
Dragon	–	–	98	86-87	81-84	–	81-85	92-93
Pixie	–	–	99	88-89	85-86	91-93	86-90	–
Giant	100	99-100	100	90-91	87-88	–	–	94-97
Griffon	–	–	–	–	89	–	–	–
Naga	–	–	–	–	90	–	91-92	–
Bear	–	–	–	–	91-92	–	–	98
Eagle	–	–	–	–	93-94	–	93-94	–
Ferret	–	–	–	–	–	94-98	–	–
Horse	–	–	–	–	95-96	–	95-96	–
Wolf	–	–	–	–	97-98	–	–	–
Spider	–	–	–	–	99	–	–	–
Undercommon	–	–	–	92-100	100	99-100	97-100	99-100
† Use the elf, dwarf, or halfling column for 0-level demi-humans.
* Chaos, Law, or Neutrality depending on character’s alignment.
** Re-roll if this duplicates a result of the character’s alignment tongue.

[chokehazard]

Having characters with Int less than 8 start out knowing only their racial languages would be very interesting, in my opinion. DCC seems to revel in the initial limitations of characters and great stories come from overcoming those limitations, so it only makes sense to have Common be a second language to non-humans.

[DCCfan]

The starting language allotments for the racial classes seems odd. All classes know common, but racial classes know their own racial languages if their INT is 8+? That seems backwards. Why not have the racial classes know their own racial languages, and common if they have an INT 8+ instead?

This seems backwards to me as well. I guess you could say that the dwarf or elf was raised by humans and knows nothing of thier culture.

[reverenddak]

I thought there weren't going to be any generic monsters? That language list suggests otherwise.

[finarvyn]

I thought there weren't going to be any generic monsters? That language list suggests otherwise.

In Poul Anderson's "The Broken Sword" there were Trolls. Tolkien's books have orcs and goblins. Conan fights snakes and bigger snakes. There clearly are some cases where generic is okay. Joseph was concerned that the lack of basic monsters might turn off possible customers, but the emphasis in the campaign hopefully will be on unique monsters.

I think that this is also the planned philosophy behind spells, that there will be some basic ones that you learn at WizTech and others that are unique to the wizard in the campaign. So some generic ones are included to get things rolling, but then characters have to find spells as the campaign progresses and these may or may not be BTB spells.

Also, generic monsters make module conversion a lot easier.

[meinvt]

I thought there weren't going to be any generic monsters? That language list suggests otherwise.

I think the intent is not to have generic lists of stats that players will have memorized. So, you may still have zombies, but exactly what a zombie can do will be creepy, unknown and surprising. Likewise with trolls. Do they regenerate? Are they smart or stupid? Do they turn to stone instantly in sunlight? Can they shrink to halfling size and skulk around the village? Are they incredibly honorable, always letting you pass if you pay their toll? Are they vulnerable to goat attacks?

So, you have a creature named troll, but the players don't know what they are meeting when they come across one. However, they can still think their way through the situation. At least, that is my take on the whole thing.

[Ogrepuppy]

The starting language allotments for the racial classes seems odd. All classes know common, but racial classes know their own racial languages if their INT is 8+? That seems backwards.

I read that section of the Beta as "racial classes know their race's language AND Common, but get additional languages when they get to level 1" as a function of them traveling the world and meeting (or fighting!) new cultures.