Goodman Games

They shouldn't be just really good they should be significantly better. Anyone can "hide". Anything can be hidden for that matter. I'm hiding behind a keyboard right now! I didn't spend months or days studying camouflage, the nuances of shadow, movement and sound like a ninja would have. Significant difference that can be quantified as Skill vs my natural or circumstantial Ability. A Thief would spend days upon days practicing lock picking, the same amount of hours that a Wizard would spend studying ancient text, collecting and organizing material components and memorizing the profane language of ire-some gods to cast a spell, and the time that a Warrior would spend honing his sword, practicing his footwork and taking steroids and "working out". The only way I like quantifying these differences in game terms (without getting into playable vs realistic, fun vs simulation, etc.) is totally and arbitrarily letting only those experts do certain things, not just do them better. Certain things being the keyword. Using hiding as an example again, a wizard on his tip-toes is one thing, but a Thief having special shoes, laced a certain way, knowing which fabrics to wear, and rolling the edge of his feet slowly, brushing any objects out the way before committing his body weight to the balls of his feet, and breathing matching the breeze as he's practiced over and over is something only a Thief can do.



Need is a subjective term!

Now, should uber high level Thieves be so awesome at what they do, that they only fail 1 time in 100? Works for me!

I think there's a good reason most RPGs don't make this distinction.

You can get the same percentages using the d20/dZocchi system seen in the rest of the DCCRPG. Plus, it will scale with level, instead of being some flat percentage.

So far the reaction to % skills in games has been love it / hate it...appears that everyone here hates it! Does ANYBODY like it? Just curious...

thieves can make their % check in addition to the d20 check. So the above noted sneaking example, if the thief fails his % check he can ALSO make the normal Agi check.

For those who want to try the "d20 version" of the thief, here is the set of abilities that I was using for most of 2010, before I changed them to percentile skills.

Gaah, I can't get this to display right..."best attempt" here...hopefully someone can make sense of this. If I need to I'll figure out how to post an MS Word document so everyone can download the formatted version.

Since my goal here is to get playtest feedback, I would say give it a shot with your preferred option (% or d20)...and then try it "the other way"...and let me know how it goes and which you do prefer in actual game play.

The salient mechanical elements of DCC rpg are two:
1) use of a unified difficulty-based mechanics,
2) use of funky dice within the context of the above.

All classes make use of the above, except the Thief. As it stands, it's just confusing, and it really doesn't add anything. It only makes the class more cluttered.

The salient mechanical elements of DCC rpg are two:
1) use of a unified difficulty-based mechanics,
2) use of funky dice within the context of the above.

All classes make use of the above, except the Thief. As it stands, it's just confusing, and it really doesn't add anything. It only makes the class more cluttered.

I think a good solution could be to publish the Thief in Joseph's preferred format in the Class section & to have an Appendix with an optional version.

Part of the point of my No Skills thread is involved here. I'd prefer the class die solution and get rid of the table if possible. Thieves should just be good at ability checks involving actions conducive to crime. PERIOD. The Judge then can determine if sneaking past a guard or making a disguise or hiding a box of jewels in a sewer drain is an ability check involving thievery and give him the bonus or not. In other words, enumerating all actions that are skullduggery is impossible. So list a few examples perhaps but don't imply the list is exclusive.

Backstab is just a class level bonus to an attack roll, it could also use the class die (or not) but doesn't need to be in a "chart". Casting a spell from a scroll is the only weird ability left after that. And having ONE weird ability is similar to the cleric. The only other real drawback is the lose of "paths" which frankly I'd prefer as the give me the willies like kits in 2e.

I think it's worth getting rid of the 'paths' for what you gain from the class die solution. I agree that using ability checks rather than named skills is better, along with Luck it opens up the class in the same way MDoAs open up the fighter.

The man is Italian and a mathematician. It's like getting game advice from Davinci.

I have to agree with you on this, as much as I like the homage to pre-3.0 D&D/AD&D. I don't have an issue if it stays, but I think that picking a method and using it across the board is probably the best path to take.

So far the reaction to % skills in games has been love it / hate it...appears that everyone here hates it! Does ANYBODY like it? Just curious...

So far the reaction to % skills in games has been love it / hate it...appears that everyone here hates it! Does ANYBODY like it? Just curious...

I deduce you know me...do I know you?

I only read the first page of this thread, but I just wanted to weigh in and say that I like the % system, and I also wouldn't mind if it was a X in 20 system. However, I am against the idea of rolling high, unless there is one static target number used for everything, such as "15" or "20". One of the things I hate most about 3.X/Pathfinder is always having to look up the DCs for so many different tasks.

I'm also not thrilled about the way saving throws are in DCC for the same reason. I have the extra step of having to figure out a DC. I'll probably just end up using a DC of 15 for all saving throws.

Perhaps....

*rolls d% for "Disguise Self"*

I recall you from both the C&C, Dragonsfoot and, I believe, Yog-Sothoth forums. I'm not too active at any of them and tend to just read, but I've always found your posts well-thought-out, fair and devoid of some of the outlandish edition loyalty that you see which makes some folks unreasonable (I'm looking at you Dragonsfoot!).

I don't think that we've every spoken directly in a post more than once or twice, but I just have a good memory.

In d20 games the saving throws are never arbitrary; the level and ability modifiers of the source of the danger provide the DC. I suppose DCC rpg works the same way.

I'm against appendices of optional rules, I've seen how it muddies the game. Let's aim for a core game so when a person sits down at a tournament they know what they're playing.