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 Post subject: Elf, action dice pg 44
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:50 pm 
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Tight-Lipped Warlock
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Doing two actions in a single round:

Combining an attack with a spell check (vs. two attacks or two spells)--just to clarify, do either get the d20/d14 progression, or are both the attack and spell at d20?


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 Post subject: Re: Elf, action dice pg 44
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:19 pm 
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The first action, whether it is an attack or a spell, rolls a d20. The second action, whether it is an attack or spell, rolls a d14.

I do find the bit about mercurial magic confusing, though. It makes perfect sense for the first action, but I'm not sure how it works with the second action. The mercurial magic table says "instead of rolling a d20, the player rolls d-whatever". So if the player is rolling d14 for their second action, do they still roll a d14? Or should the mercurial magic table instead say something like "roll 1 die-type higher/lower"? Applies to wizards and second action spells too, I suppose.

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 Post subject: Re: Elf, action dice pg 44
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:37 pm 
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Mercurial magic affects both abilities. So if you get a d24 (or d16) for a particular spell, you use that die whether it is the first or second action.


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 Post subject: Re: Elf, action dice pg 44
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:49 pm 
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mythfish wrote:
The first action, whether it is an attack or a spell, rolls a d20. The second action, whether it is an attack or spell, rolls a d14.


I kinda figured, but I thought it was a tiny bit murky so figured I'd clarify. It implies, as written, that you might be able to roll d20 for both. (If you squint your eyes and look at it at an angle.) :D


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 Post subject: Re: Elf, action dice pg 44
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:45 am 
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Ogrepuppy wrote:
mythfish wrote:
The first action, whether it is an attack or a spell, rolls a d20. The second action, whether it is an attack or spell, rolls a d14.
I kinda figured, but I thought it was a tiny bit murky so figured I'd clarify. It implies, as written, that you might be able to roll d20 for both. (If you squint your eyes and look at it at an angle.) :D
This dice convention replaces the "minus modifier on extra actions" that some RPGs introduce.

While it may seem unusual at first, it's actually pretty slick when you think about it: just roll your d20 and d14 at the same time and you don't have to worry about which die gets the modifier since the dice type is the modifier.

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 Post subject: Re: Elf, action dice pg 44
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:07 am 
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That doesn't seem right.

Using the D14 for your second action is supposed to be a penalty...you're rolling a D14 instead of a D20. Shouldn't that be reflected in the die you roll for spells? Like, it seems odd that one could have a penalty when rolling a certain spell (Mercurial Magic, you roll a D16) and yet when you roll as your second action, you're better off than anyone else would be.

That...that doesn't seem right.

I read it as you're at a 2 die penalty. If you normally roll a D30, you now roll a D20. If you normally roll a D16, you now roll a D12.


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 Post subject: Re: Elf, action dice pg 44
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:10 am 
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talmor wrote:
That doesn't seem right.

Using the D14 for your second action is supposed to be a penalty...you're rolling a D14 instead of a D20. Shouldn't that be reflected in the die you roll for spells? Like, it seems odd that one could have a penalty when rolling a certain spell (Mercurial Magic, you roll a D16) and yet when you roll as your second action, you're better off than anyone else would be.

That...that doesn't seem right.

I read it as you're at a 2 die penalty. If you normally roll a D30, you now roll a D20. If you normally roll a D16, you now roll a D12.


Think of of this way in 3e terms.

When a BAB gets to +6, you get two attacks. One at d20+6 and one at d20+1.

In DCC RPG, you get a d20, d14

Less math. You apply the same bonuses to each die. So if you have a +4 bonus you are doing the following:

d20+4 and d14+4

Instead of 3e...

d20+4 and d20-1

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 Post subject: Re: Elf, action dice pg 44
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:49 am 
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Hamakto wrote:
talmor wrote:
That doesn't seem right.

Using the D14 for your second action is supposed to be a penalty...you're rolling a D14 instead of a D20. Shouldn't that be reflected in the die you roll for spells? Like, it seems odd that one could have a penalty when rolling a certain spell (Mercurial Magic, you roll a D16) and yet when you roll as your second action, you're better off than anyone else would be.

That...that doesn't seem right.

I read it as you're at a 2 die penalty. If you normally roll a D30, you now roll a D20. If you normally roll a D16, you now roll a D12.


Think of of this way in 3e terms.

When a BAB gets to +6, you get two attacks. One at d20+6 and one at d20+1.

In DCC RPG, you get a d20, d14

Less math. You apply the same bonuses to each die. So if you have a +4 bonus you are doing the following:

d20+4 and d14+4

Instead of 3e...

d20+4 and d20-1


I'm not sure we're on the same page. You're giving an example of D20 +4 and D14+4. That's not ths issue.

The issue is when your NORMAL die is NOT a D20...how is it modified (and is it modified) when you get a second action.


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 Post subject: Re: Elf, action dice pg 44
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:21 am 
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I don't believe it is saying to use Mercurial Magic as a modifier, but as a replacement. If I get to use a d30 for Magic Missile... then I can swing my sword with a d20 and then as my second action fire off a d30 magic Missile.


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 Post subject: Re: Elf, action dice pg 44
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:00 am 
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talmor wrote:
That doesn't seem right.

Your sense of "fairness" is showing.

If you have beneficial mercurial magic effect, and manage to attain 5th level, you can "play" the system and get a secondary action with better results than other people. Congratulations.


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 Post subject: Re: Elf, action dice pg 44
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:09 pm 
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The mercurial magic table specifically says "instead of rolling a d20, roll dXX". If you are casting a spell as your second action, you wouldn't be rolling a d20 and therefore would not get to/have to roll another die type. That's how it reads to me anyway, but I've been playing a lot of CCGs lately. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Elf, action dice pg 44
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:19 pm 
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jmucchiello wrote:
Your sense of "fairness" is showing.


Huh?

Fairness--and I have no idea why you put that word in quotes, so I'm just gonna ignore that for now--is NOT what I was going for, so much as clarity.

If you have Mercurial Magic, and as a result you roll a D16 instead of a D20 for a specific spell. You cast that spell as a second action. instead of rolling D14 (like anyone else would) you roll a D16. Is that right? And by that I mean, "is this what the designers intended?" To me, this seems like a rules loophole, not something that is designed to function in that way. However, I did not spend the past year or so play testing this game, so I don't know--it reads like a loophole/typo/something that isn't clear.

Of course, it COULD be you roll a D14 for secondary spells NO MATTER WHAT--doesn't matter if you normally roll a D14, D16, D20, D24, or a D30 for this spell, you ALWAYS roll it as a D14 for your secondary attack. That has a certain amount of logic to it (more so than above, at least), but, in my opinion, doesn't gell with the spirit of the Mercurial Magic tables, based on my limited understanding of how these work at the table.

Does that make more sense? Sorry, I apparently wasn't very clear in my questions about it in my earlier post.


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 Post subject: Re: Elf, action dice pg 44
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:02 pm 
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talmor wrote:
If you have Mercurial Magic, and as a result you roll a D16 instead of a D20 for a specific spell. You cast that spell as a second action. instead of rolling D14 (like anyone else would) you roll a D16. Is that right?

Yes. It's magic! Likewise, the guy who scored a 21+ on the mercurial magic table casts his second spell with a d30.

Is that "fair" to other magic wielders? No. But that's life.


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