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 Post subject: Converting Dungeon Crawl Classics to Castles and Crusades.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:53 pm 
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Ill-Fated Peasant

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:58 pm
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Location: Davis, CA
Hello, my name is Chris Rutkowsky and I did the conversion of the Mysterious Tower from d20 to Castles and Crusades, and wrote an original module for C&C for Goodman Games.

Joe forwarded me an email in which a person wanted a guideline for converting a certain module (Crypt of the Devil Litch) to C&C. I personally don't have this module, however I can give you guys a quick guideline that I used myself to make things for Mysterious Tower work for C&C.

The easiest thing to convert is the monsters. All you need to do is look up the same monster in the C&C Monsters and Treasure book! You can mark the pages in the module and your M&T book with color coded sticky notes so that you always know what page to turn to in a hurry and don't have to bother with making notes.

If the monster you want to convert is not in the Monsters and Treasure Book, I would consult an older edition of D&D-- my personal favorite being the Basic D&D Rules Cyclopedia. If you don't have it you can buy the pdf for 5 dollars at rpgnow.com or buy a used one on ebay.

The monsters presented in the RC are 90% compatable with C&C rules. The only thing that you would need to actively convert is armor class and saving throws. To convert D&DRC armor class to C&C, simply subtract the given AC from 19. Remember that subtracting a negative number is the same thing as addition. So a D&D monster listed as AC 5 would be AC 14 in C&C (19-5= 14). A monster with AC -3 would become AC 22 in C&C (19+3 =22). Saves are easier to convert. If the creature saves as a fighter, thief, dwarf, or halfling it is Physical prime. If it saves as an elf, cleric, or wizard it is mental prime. Use the creatures HD as the bonus to all rolls (including saves, attacks, etc). Simple, eh?

If using 1st or 2nd Edition AD&D as a resource, armor class is also easy to manage. Simply subtract the listed AC from 20. So an AC 5 creature would be AC 15 in C&C and an AC -3 character would be AC 23 in C&C. Saves convert the same as in basic D&D.

If you want to convert DIRECTLY from d20 system, use the same Hit Dice and die type as the creature already has, but get rid of the bonus hit points. So a creature listed as 5d10+15 HD in d20 would convert to 5d10 in C&C. You should also take away any bonuses to the damage dice listed. If the bonus listed is higher than the die, just make the attack use the die type, and double it. So a creature listed as doing d4+5 damage, change it to 2d4. If a creature had d6+3 dmg, just convert it to d6. These changes are because hit points and damage are harder to come by in C&C than they are in d20. If a creature's good saves are FORT or REF, it is Physical prime. If it is WILL the creature is mental prime. If they are all good saves, it is physical and mental prime.

Converting Saves
Older editions of D&D had 5 saving throws. C&C has 6 and they are just about the same, except the C&C saves are directly linked to stats. The old D&D saves were as follows and converts to C&C as presented below:

Paralysis-- Str
Breath Weapon (and area of affect spells like fireball)-- Dex
Poison, Death-- Con
Wands, Staves, Wands (and Illusions)-- INT
Spells (except illusions and area of affect spells like fireball and charm or sleep spells)-- WIS
Enchantment spells (sleep, charm, etc) and fear= CHA

Converting d20 saves is a little trickier and involves a judgement call by the CK converting it. You just have to use some logic as to which converts to what.

FORT-- STR or CON (depending on the effect)
REF-- DEX
WILL--INT, WIS, or CHA (Depending on the source of the spell/effect, CK's call)

Converting DCs to Challenge Levels.

I use a simple formula for this. I assume that DC 15 is the average DC of a check in d20. In C&C, the average difficulty of a task is CL 0. So every 1 the DC is higher than 15 in D20, the CL is 1 higher. So a DC 19 check would convert to a CL 4 check. For every 1 the DC is lower than 15 in D&D, the CL is -1. So a DC 12 check would be CL -3 in C&C. The CL of course is added to the base of 12/18 depending on if the character is prime in the required stat.

Converting Skill Checks
Simply make the skill check into an attribute check for the skill that is normally tied to that attribute. You may want to give certain classes a bonus in this, or even restrict who can try based on class. For instance a Search check would simply convert to an INT check, which anybody can do, but a Survival check to track somebody should be limited to rangers or maybe druids (with a penalty as it is not a class ability for them).

Converting damage from traps--
If the trap is related to a spell, look up the C&C equivilent and adjust the effect accordingly.

If the damage is related to a weapon, look up that weapons damage in C&C and convert it.

If damage is listed as a die with a damage bonus exceeding the die types, add another die to the damage instead. If it has a damage bonus less than the die type, get rid of the bonus damage.

So if a trap is listed as doing 5d6+7 damage, convert it to 6d6 damage for C&C. If it does 5d6+4 damage, it just does 5d6.

Well, that is all that comes to mind for now. Let me know if you think of any other questions about conversion.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:56 am 
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Tight-Lipped Warlock
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All I can say is wow.

This is a neat post.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:05 pm 
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You da man, Chris. :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 4:38 pm 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:55 pm
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Location: Dublin, Eire
Thanks! :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:41 pm 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 5:05 pm
Posts: 17
I was just directed to this message by the good people here at Goodman Games, and I must say, I am ecstatic to see your conversion guide as I am a devoted C&C fan.

Thanks for making the best "D&D" adventures out there accessible to what I consider to be the game that best captures the past and present essence of the game we all love the best.

(I get so emotional when I talk about what C&C has done for the hobby.)

:D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:47 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 2:24 pm
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Location: London
Thanks for the conversion summary - much appreciated!

We've switched from 1e AD&D to C&C, and while I'll be buying everything GG releases in C&C format, it's great to have conversion guidelines to use in the interim.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:27 am 
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Ill-Fated Peasant

Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:47 pm
Posts: 6
Excellent guide! How do you go about converting monsters with Class Levels, which seem to be a favorite amongst many of the DCC modules I've read? :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:00 pm 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:55 pm
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Location: Dublin, Eire
Meepo wrote:
Excellent guide! How do you go about converting monsters with Class Levels, which seem to be a favorite amongst many of the DCC modules I've read? :)


I would just add 1 HD per 'class level', and give the monster the 'class abilities' (appropriate spells or whatever) for the class of the appropriate level.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:21 am 
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Ill-Fated Peasant

Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:47 pm
Posts: 6
Simple, yet elegant. Thanks for the advice, Akrasia!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:28 am 
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Wild-Eyed Zealot
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Location: Tacoma, WA
Now if we could only see more DCC published for C&C and/or OSRIC.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:35 pm 
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Wild-Eyed Zealot

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:15 pm
Posts: 95
Thanks for the conversion guideline Bash Man, I have several DCC, and just glancing at them you suggestions seem right on.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:38 am 
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Wild-Eyed Zealot
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Clangador wrote:
Now if we could only see more DCC published for C&C and/or OSRIC.


Great conversion notes. I'm definitely using this as a guide for running my DCCs with C&C!

With the "official" DCC conversion(s) like Mysterious Tower, is that something that Goodman Games has to get permission from TLG to publish? Or since C&C is OGL, can it just be done "open source" style? I guess my real question is whether GG plans on converting more DCCs officially, or if there is a legal/business hangup to that? It seems there would be a reasonable demand, even if they were only released electronically.

Just wondering.

PS- What about future DCCs being "dual-statted" for 3.5 and C&C?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:40 pm 
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Cold-Hearted Immortal

Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 2:41 pm
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Location: San Jose, CA
The C&C conversions are officially licensed by Troll Lord Games (as in, I bought Steve a beer, got him drunk, and said "Sign here!"). ;)

There's a possibility future DCC's will be dual-statted.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:02 pm 
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Wild-Eyed Zealot

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:15 pm
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Dual-statted would be great.

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 Post subject: Converting Dungeon Crawl Classics to Castles & Crusades
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:23 am 
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Hard-Bitten Adventurer

Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:36 pm
Posts: 164
goodmangames wrote:
The C&C conversions are officially licensed by Troll Lord Games (as in, I bought Steve a beer, got him drunk, and said "Sign here!"). ;)

There's a possibility future DCC's will be dual-statted.



Joseph,

Do you have any interest in rereleasing any of the "older" DCC's as official DCC conversions to C&C, like you did with Mysterious Tower?

I would be willing to help with a project like that if there's viability for GG to do additional rereleases for C&C. If you do have some interest in doing something like that, perhaps we can talk about it at Gen Con?

Thanks,

tacojohn4547


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:53 am 
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Wild-Eyed Zealot
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Hey BASH man, quick question for you. How would you recommend converting things like "fiendish" and "dire" template creatures to C&C? In my personal notes on adapting "Idylls" (DCC1), I was just making the dire rats +1HD over normal Giant Rats from M&T, but as I look over some other modules, I'm not sure whether that kind of conversion will always be the best way to go. I suppose case-by case comparison will work, but I was just trying to find out if you (or anyone else) had a good rule of thumb for these kinds of critters.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:47 pm 
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Ill-Fated Peasant

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:58 pm
Posts: 4
Location: Davis, CA
Fiendish does not add any hit dice to my knowledge. A fiendish creature gets the following:

1-3 HD Half Damage from Fire & Cold, SR = HDx2
4-7HD Half Damage from Fire & Cold, SR = HDx2, +1 weapon to be hit
8-11 HD Half Damage from Fire & Cold, SR = 15, +2 weapon to be hit
12+ No Damage from Fire & Cold, SR = 18, +3 weapon to be hit

Dire creatures I would add hit dice, maybe even double them. So a 5HD tiger, in Dire version would be 10 HD. Also if the HD is below d8, I would raise it to that minimum. So a 1d4 HD rat as a dire rat would be 2d8 HD.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:27 pm 
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Wild-Eyed Zealot

Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:51 pm
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How would you convert weird numbers like 2d4+20? 4d4? 8d4?


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 Post subject: Thanks!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:20 am 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 8:50 am
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Location: Chicago Suburbs
Boy, this is great info. Thanks for taking the time to post. Dual stats would be the greatest thing ever! This post also has the start of a really neat PDF.......


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 Post subject: Also
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:55 am 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 8:50 am
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Location: Chicago Suburbs
While we're on the topic, what about prestige classes, spells, and magic items?


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 Post subject: Re: Also
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:37 am 
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vogless wrote:
While we're on the topic, what about prestige classes, spells, and magic items?


Hmmm. I'd say most prestige classes could be handled by using the C&C classes, possibly with some creative multi-classing. (Castle Zazyg has that info, iirc.)

Spells, well if C&C doesn't have the exact spell, look at what it's supposed to accomplish and either 1) find it's closest equivalent or 2) just make it up :)

For items, see notes on spells, above. ;)

Remember C&C isn't as stat-intensive as how most folks play 3.x, so the GM has a little more "wiggle room" in terms of things like NPCs, spells, and items.

my 2cp, anyway


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 Post subject: re:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:00 am 
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Hard-Bitten Adventurer

Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:59 pm
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goodmangames wrote:
There's a possibility future DCC's will be dual-statted.



Is this still something in the works?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:29 am 
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Hard-Bitten Adventurer
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Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
Quote:
Remember C&C isn't as stat-intensive as how most folks play 3.x, so the GM has a little more "wiggle room" in terms of things like NPCs, spells, and items.

Which is EXACTLY what makes this game so appealing to all those fed up with the N-th optional rules sourcebook of 3.x. Plus, you can play all of those old AD&D or classic D&D modules just right "out of the box". Almost next to nothing in terms of conversion needed! :)

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 Post subject: re:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:09 pm 
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Hard-Bitten Adventurer

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Posts: 110
I've just ordered the C&C player's guide to check it out.

...and I'll use the guidelines here to start converting some low level DCCs.

If the system checks out, I'll make the switch from d20 for our group(s)... all in all, that makes 20 or so of us.

So I'm hoping the conversions won't be too much of a pain.


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 Post subject: re
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:53 pm 
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Hard-Bitten Adventurer

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Posts: 110
Picked up C&C.

Swweeet...

Now that's old school.


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