Goodman Games

The Dragonfiend Pact to C&C
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Author:  slimykuotoan [ Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:22 am ]
Post subject:  The Dragonfiend Pact to C&C

K, I'm not sure if I'm posting in the right area, but I'd like to attempt to convert this adventure using the conversion guidelines outlined by BASH MAN.

Any suggestions, hints, criticisms, or etcetera are greatly appreciated.

Hmm, page one...

Author:  JediOre [ Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:20 am ]
Post subject: 

Hey slimykuotoan,

I don't have the module in front of me but you really need very little prep time for this.

Changing the spells of the main protagonist is the only real time you need to invest. The rest of the module should flow from you as it happens.

If you have specific areas, traps, or encounters you need help with post 'em here and I'll help out.

When are you planning to run this jolly module?

Author:  slimykuotoan [ Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:32 am ]
Post subject:  thks- I'd appreciate any and all help.

Next Wednesday hopefully.

I've thought alot about this, and I'm not comfortable converting monsters with class levels by just giving them an extra hit die.

So I need wererat rogues, etc.

Author:  Philotomy Jurament [ Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:08 pm ]
Post subject: 

Well, I'd go beyond just giving them extra hit dice, but I wouldn't bother with any detailed/careful schemes for adding class levels -- more trouble than its worth, IMO. If I wanted a Wererat that's also a 5th level Rogue, I'd so something like this:

1. Start with a wererat. (3d8)

2. Give him two or three extra (d8) hit dice (this approximates the additional base attack and hit points rogue levels would give)

3. Give him rogue abilities. He's already got physical primes, and I'd probably give him Dex-based rogue abilities at +6 or +7 and the other rogue abilities at +5.

4. Adjust his XP award for the additional HD and abililties.

Fast. Simple. And you end up with a monster that's got the abilities you want at the competence-level you had in mind.

You could go the other way, too. Start with a 5th level rogue and then add wererat characteristics (i.e. a template-style approach).

Author:  slimykuotoan [ Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  re:

Werebadger RGR2/Rog1: CR5;Medium Humanoid (human shapechanger); HD 3d8+1d6+16; hp 28; init +7; spd 30 ft; AC 18; touch 13, flat footed 15; BAB +2; GRP +3; Atk/Full Atk +4 metee (1d6+1/19-20, masterwork shortsword) or +7 ranged (1d6+1/X3, +1 shortbow)
My post:

gideon_thorne wrote: "Werebadger RGR2/Rog1: HD 3d8+1d6+16; hp 28;Save:P, AC 18; (1d6+1), masterwork shortsword, (1d6+1/X3, +1 shortbow)

There's a C&C stat block ^_^"

How's that?

Author:  Philotomy Jurament [ Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: re:

slimykuotoan wrote:
How's that?

That's not exactly how I'd do it, but it would work. The hit dice seem unnecessarily weird to me, though. I'd stick with standard "monster" hit dice that get you in the range (for attack and hit points), and then give the class abilities as "special abilities." Something like this:

Werebadger HD 5d8, hp 25; Save:P; AC 18; exp. shortsword (1d6+1), shortbow (1d6); Rgr2 abilities (+2), Rog1 abilities (+1)

Author:  JediOre [ Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:35 am ]
Post subject: 

Either way would work for me.

Author:  gideon_thorne [ Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: re:

Philotomy Jurament wrote:
slimykuotoan wrote:
How's that?

That's not exactly how I'd do it, but it would work. The hit dice seem unnecessarily weird to me, though

Probably, but its good for those who find it easier to separate a 'multiclass' type by seeing it physically written down.

Sised, said wererat might live to fight another day and gain xp in part of their class they use more often. It would be easier, for me, to have the HD divided as above to keep track of such things. ^_^

Author:  slimykuotoan [ Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:17 am ]
Post subject: 

With regard to primes then, would I say that the werebadger has dex/wis, etc. or just say that when using ranger or thief abilities it gets its level +

Author:  gideon_thorne [ Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:22 am ]
Post subject: 

slimykuotoan wrote:
With regard to primes then, would I say that the werebadger has dex/wis, etc. or just say that when using ranger or thief abilities it gets its level +

Hmm.. well. Perhaps a creature with added classes ought to tack on a Mental prime as well IF the class itself has abilities that fall under it.

A Fighter werecritter, for example, would be strictly a Physical prime creautre, where a Wizard, perhaps, would be both.

One way of looking at it, at least. ^_^

Author:  Philotomy Jurament [ Sat Apr 07, 2007 2:16 pm ]
Post subject: 

slimykuotoan wrote:
With regard to primes then, would I say that the werebadger has dex/wis, etc. or just say that when using ranger or thief abilities it gets its level +

I tend more towards treating it as a standard monster, rather than worrying about the details of adding classes; for a lycanthrope with rogue and ranger abilities, I'd do it like this:

- Use the standard Physical (P) saves (i.e. primes).
- Add the level for the class abilities, but don't worry about a stat bonus.

The primes weigh more heavily than stat bonuses, in any case. If you think that shortchanges the monster, then just give him an extra level or two where you think he's getting shortchanged.

(If we were talking about a lyncanthrope with spell-casting abilities, I'd give him P+M saves/primes.)

Author:  slimykuotoan [ Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  re:

You know, I was gonna post a 'play-by-play' of the conversion process, but it turned out to be pretty simple, and not really worth writing out...

Author:  JediOre [ Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:04 pm ]
Post subject: 

I figured you'd come to that conclusion.

After gaming with 3.X for several years, I'm sure most DMs would have a rough time of it for a spell. Once you see the simplicity of it all, the conversion is quick and painless.

For me, with in two weeks I couldn't remember most of the 3.X rules! LOL. My 20-odd years of first edition AD&D knowledge quickly "wrote over" the 3.X rule set.

Author:  slimykuotoan [ Sun Apr 08, 2007 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  re

Looks like I will need some help converting a few other monsters...

Author:  JediOre [ Sun Apr 08, 2007 6:17 pm ]
Post subject: 

That's why we're here.

Ask the question and the fine folks on this board will do their level best to help.

Author:  slimykuotoan [ Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:09 pm ]
Post subject:  re

Actually JediOre, have you converted the npcs in this adventure?

I need the pseudo-dragon sorcerer, the rogue choker, Malchor, and Goren Bloodshaft...

...and when the PCs reduce, I'll probaly substitute the ordinary rats with giant rats from the M&T.

Author:  JediOre [ Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:17 am ]
Post subject: 

No, I haven't converted anything from this DCC.

However, I'll be happy to work on it during lunch here at work. I brought the module with me to work today. As I recall you need this by Wednesday.

Author:  slimykuotoan [ Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:13 am ]
Post subject:  re

Wow JediOre:

Thanks; very much appreciated!

Author:  JediOre [ Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:08 am ]
Post subject: 

I can't promise my "conversions" are the most accurate, but I'm trying to keep the feel of the villians alive. Feel free to ignore what ever you like.

I also figure after I post these someone who is more clever than I am will post a much better "conversion."

Here they are:

Blackspine would convert like this for me:

HD 3d12 (20 hp); AC 19; BtH 3 (one time per day can attempt to hit good opponent at at BtH 7); Damage (per pseudo-dragon in Monsters & Treasure but I would make the poison more deadly by increasing the challenge rating by one since he’s a fiendish pseudo-dragon); Needs cold iron or silver to hit (unless your party has no weapons to hit the beast); Immune to sleep and paralysis; Immune to the first 5 points of damage from cold and fire; Spell Resistance 5; Saves P, M.
I’d also keep the sorcerer spells for Blackspine.

The Choker would look like this for me:

HD 4d8 (14 hp); AC 17; BtH 4; Damage two tentacles 2-4 points each (don’t forget about the back attack ability of a first level rogue); Saves P. This fellow should be played like the 3.X rules suggested – stealthy. It would get the drop on my PCs and get a back attack on the second or third PC to cross.

Malchor would stay the same for me. Of course Domains don’t exist in C&C, but if the party has been having an easy time of it, I’d keep the extra spells even though they are not cleric spells at all. I don’t think “detect thoughts” even exists in the C&C spell lists. Keep it anyway. Change some of the spells he has to comply with C&C if you like. If you still have easy access to the 3rd edition Player’s Handbook, perhaps you should just keep the spells listed and use them since part of the suggested tactics use his spells. His primes would be WIS, DEX, and CHA.

Goren Bloodshaft:

HD 4d8 (21 hp); AC 10+studded leather + DEX modifer (I forgot to bring the C&C Players Handbook); BtH 4; Damage per weapon. Saves P. As a 2nd level fighter he is specialized in the long bow. I’d allow back attacks with it as well. That should make him tough. Again, if the party has been doing very well and you need to up the challenge a bit, I’d have this goblin drink a potion of invisibility before he enters the cave. That would assure at least one back attack with his bow.

I'll be happy to answer any questions if you have them.

Author:  slimykuotoan [ Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  re

Thanks very much!

Do you think the rest of the mod is o.k. as is. ie. viper, or should I use M&T equivalents.

Also, when changed to C&C, does the deifficulty of the mod stay around second level?

This' a group new to C&C so I want to be sure things go well, etc.

Author:  JediOre [ Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:55 pm ]
Post subject: 

I'd leave the rest alone.

The DC's translate to Challenge Ratings with a quick formula:

DC - 15 = CR.

For example on page 7, the Greataxe trap has a Reflex save with a DC of 16. That would be a DEX save with a CR of 1. The same trap has a search DC of 14. That would be a search check (WIS) with a CR of -1.

Hope that helps.

Author:  slimykuotoan [ Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  re

Perfect, thank you soooo much JediOre.

Author:  JediOre [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:15 am ]
Post subject: 

How did your Wednesday game go?

Did they enjoy C&C?

Did they enjoy this little gem of a module?

I'm curious.

Author:  JediOre [ Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:39 am ]
Post subject: 


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