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 Post subject: What will happen to Áereth (i.e. the DCC setting) under 4e?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:27 am 
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Since Goodman Games apparently plans to continue the DCC line with 4e - what will happen to Áereth?

Possible answers:

- the 4e DCCs will no longer take place in Áereth

- something *big* will happen to Áereth, thus changing the ways magic works, making room for new classes, etc.

- something else (what?)

So: what will it be?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:49 am 
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Cardinal,

Please take everything I write with a grain of salt --- I don't have my hands on the SRD yet, so I know as little as everyone else.

From what I've seen and read of 4E, Áereth right where it needs to be. This has nothing to do with us succesfully anticipating 4E but everything to do with Jeff, Mike and I writing a setting that's exciting to play.

In short, we got lucky. :)

Points of Light: Jeff, Mike and I wrote a PoL setting before Wizards came up with the buzzword. Even the Gaz's introduction highlights this. To me, a setting where even something as simple as travel is fraught with danger is truer to the medieval world, and just plain fun. The heroes need to be Heroes, and everything about Áereth is tailored to keep the spotlight on the PCs.

Tieflings/warlock’s infernal pacts: We got lucky on this one, but we nailed it. Quoted directly from the Gaz:

Quote:
Like the priest-kings of old, many of those serving the Secret Kings are soulless husks, their souls sold into damnation in return for terrestrial powers. This is not undertaken lightly, since the Secret Kings are far from achieving their goals, and enemies abound. More commonly, the scions of the Secret Kings carry demon blood within their veins. Cambions, tieflings, and half-fiends, so common during the reign of the Priest-Kings, still exist within the dark halls of the Secret Kings.


The 4E tiefling, and pact-making warlocks are already in the setting.

Dragonborn: Again, got lucky, but we nailed it. Or rather, Jason Little nailed it, in his Vault of the Dragon Kings. Dragonborn fall neatly into place as mortal descendents from the deific line of Dragon Kings. This is doubly cool because it means we get to write up noble houses and warriors clans (in some fashion or another) for the dragonborn race. In DCC world, dragonborn adventurers are nobility from a lost age --- warriors where honor is everything, and customs reach back for eons.

Like tieflings, dragonborn aren't common by any stretch of the imagination. 90% of the regular population go their entire life without meeting a dragonborn. But as heroes, they are justified, since their story should be unique.

Split of Elves/Fae Realms: Again, got lucky. Check out Adventure Continues and Castle Whiterock for the first DCC forays into the Fae Realms. Way to go, Adrian and Jess.

Gnomes: Jeff loves gnomes, Harley less so. But Harley got to write the Northlands so you don’t see a lot of gnome lovin’. This was just me being lazy. The relegation of gnomes to "monsters" is a non-issue for me. Before you flame me, see the next point . . .

Most Important: DCC world was always intended to be your world. Hate dragonborn and tieflings? No sweat. Tear the pages out of your players' core books. Love gnomes? Declare Crieste overrun by the little guys. More power to the GM. DCC world is perfectly suited to 4E because, above all else, we always intended for it to be malleable. Don't let me, Joseph, or Wizards tell you how to run your game. Use what inspires you, and throw away the rest.

The 4E Known World isn't terribly different from the old-school Áereth we wrote into DCC #35. It's still a dangerous world rife with adventure and desperately in need of heroes. And, honestly, (please forgive the bias) I can't wait to play in it. :)

//H

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DCC Resource thread: character sheets, judge tools, and the world's fastest 0-level party creator.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:12 pm 
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It should also be noted that there are many other plausible ways to insert the new player races. The drakon of Ssorlang could just as easily be dragonborn, bred by the nagas of Zimala when their great power first began to wane by mixing their blood with the blood of dragons and men. So picture a dragonborn adorned with Aztecish feathers and wielding a macuahuitl. I know I like the image.

But I can also easily see the tieflings or dragonborn hailing from the Shadowed West. By design, the people of the Shadowed West are mysterious and were meant to allow DM/players to include Oriental Adventures-style characters and abilities. So perhaps the dragonborn or the tieflings (or both?) are the overlords of the Shadowed West, and are now invading the Known Lands, starting with the Criestine Colonies and the Xulmec City-States. They will inevitably make their way across the Empyrean...

With the hordes of the Scourge on the eastern front and the new incursion of dragonborn or tieflings in the west, the Northlands will seriously need some heroes.

I also like the idea of dragonborn samurai. Perhaps they're also from the Shadowed West but they oppose the tieflings. Ancient enemies...

Tieflings would also be a nice fit in the Lost Lands, especially near the Devil's Cauldron.

Of course, we're just spouting this out at random. Plenty of ways to make it all work. We haven't seen the new stuff, so we wouldn't commit to any direction just yet anyway.

Quote:
Gnomes: Jeff loves gnomes

If it gets cold enough.

Quote:
But Harley got to write the Northlands so you don’t see a lot of gnome lovin’.

Blasphemy. And in any case, the gnomes have some decent representation in the Castle Whiterock and the Kingdom of Morrain gaz.

Seriously, no biggie. The gnomes will make their comeback a little ways down the line. They're biding their time; they're crafty little buggers and they'll let the tieflings have their 15 rounds of fame....then....

SNEAK ATTACK!

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Last edited by Jeff LaSala on Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:20 pm 
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Jeff LaSala wrote:
So picture a dragonborn adorned with Aztecish feathers and wielding a macuahuitl. I know I like the image.


Warhammer Fantasy lizardmen! Huzzah!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:07 pm 
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Harley Stroh wrote:
Most Important: DCC world was always intended to be your world. Hate dragonborn and tieflings? No sweat. Tear the pages out of your players' core books.

//H


Okay, Harley, now what do I do with these pages now that I've ripped these suckers out??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

taco


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:16 pm 
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tacojohn4547 wrote:

Okay, Harley, now what do I do with these pages now that I've ripped these suckers out??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Hehe. I'd tell you, but it's not fit for the forums.

I knew you'd make the switch, Taco.:twisted:

//H

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DCC Resource thread: character sheets, judge tools, and the world's fastest 0-level party creator.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:20 pm 
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Harley Stroh wrote:
tacojohn4547 wrote:

Okay, Harley, now what do I do with these pages now that I've ripped these suckers out??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Hehe. I'd tell you, but it's not fit for the forums.

I knew you'd make the switch, Taco.:twisted:

//H



Hahahaha

Nah, we aren't switchin'... not to 4E.... not to 3.x... not to 2E. :)

If we switched to a different game, what would I do with my 10 AD&D PHBs and 6 AD&D DMGs? :o Answer me that, Mr. DCC Line Editor Sir! :wink:

tacojohn


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:35 pm 
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Harley Stroh wrote:
From what I've seen and read of 4E, Áereth right where it needs to be. This has nothing to do with us succesfully anticipating 4E but everything to do with Jeff, Mike and I writing a setting that's exciting to play.

In short, we got lucky. :)

When I was reading some of the initial teasers, I thought to myself "The direction WotC is going is pretty much the same as Aereth." I said it once earlier - given the Priest Kings of Nimoria, reptilian rulers of the Westlands, and general PoL of the setting, Aereth is well-positioned to be a great 4e setting.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:09 pm 
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And you know, DCC #35 did sell out a couple months ago. Maybe it's about time for an update and reprint...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:54 am 
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goodmangames wrote:
Maybe it's about time for an update and reprint...


Well, *I* would buy it (even though I'm thinking more & more about turning my Áereth campaign into a GURPS4e Dungeon Fantasy campaign...)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:50 pm 
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goodmangames wrote:
And you know, DCC #35 did sell out a couple months ago. Maybe it's about time for an update and reprint...

That would be cool. May I humbly request that the list of gods be reduced to around 20 or so, with any differences being due to different cultural interpretations? It will make choosing a god lots easier :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:04 pm 
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Harley Stroh wrote:
In short, we got lucky. :)


I have to say it: I really haven't been looking forward to 4th Ed. All the negatives and changes of the ruleset seemed to far outweigh the positives. I just haven't felt the "bite" of 4th Ed, and much of the rhetoric that WotC has been spinning about how "great" it is just seems to rub salt in the wound that cancelling Dragon and Dungeon mags initiated.

I've been brooding, all gloomy, over how I can continue playing my favorite RPG line--DCCs, of course--when the new edition is released, because I wasn't going to buy the 4th Ed books.

When I read Harley's take on how well 4th Ed fits Áereth (and yes, I'm intentionally saying it in that order :twisted: )....it....it....just shed illumination and positivity into the situation. I see now how smartly Áereth is going to meld with 4th Ed, and that gives me great hope that the game will seriously rock once again.

I may not support WotC by purchasing anything beyond the core books, but I can guarantee that I'll be putting my money into Goodman Games products.

(That, plus I'm hooked on Goodman Games books like the worse crack ho junkie you've ever seen... )


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:19 am 
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Cold-Hearted Immortal

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Ogre,

Thanks for the vote of confidence. That means a lot to me coming from the ol' OP.

4E isn’t going to change the heart of the “DCC experience.” Everything that made the adventures fun to play in 3rd and 3.5 will remain the keystones in our 4th edition adventures. Cool locations, exciting combats, dramatic traps, and most importantly adventure --- all these things will continue to the key elements of the DCCs.

There was a point after DCC #35 that we had exhausted nearly all of the old AD&D tropes. In a sense, the Well of Gygax (and all the Other Greats) had gone dry. But rather than throw in the towel, or start aping 2E adventures, I had perhaps the single good idea of my career:

Instead of going to Gygax for DCC inspiration, go to the sources that inspired Gygax.

This means all the Greats you see listed in the back of the old DMG. By going to the sources that inspired the original D&D, we were able to find new ideas that were true to the old models. Put another way, we were studying side by side with the Masters, rather than studying beneath them.

(Most of these adventures haven’t seen print yet. I had to put several adventures on hold when 4E was announced, and I have authors chomping at the bit to see their hard work in print. Sorry, guys, I have to beg your patience just a little longer...)

So when I look at 4E, it’s through the lens of the golden age writers. The question I ask myself is, Can the Fourth Edition of Dungeon & Dragons help me imagine these adventures?

Foul warlocks making eldritch pacts with infernal powers? Wild realms of the fey lurking behind crashing waterfalls? Pitched battles through exotic terrain? Perfect. This is precisely what the greats wrote about, and this is exactly the game I want to play.

//H

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DCC Resource thread: character sheets, judge tools, and the world's fastest 0-level party creator.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:31 am 
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And, as one GM to another, if you don't like something in 4E, throw it out. Don't let the core book tell you squat. (My longest running campaign was an L5R game where I forced all 5 players to choose the same "class." 4+ years. Best game I ever ran.)

"Do what thou wilt, that shall be the whole of the GM's law." :twisted:

Old man, signing off,
//H

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DCC Resource thread: character sheets, judge tools, and the world's fastest 0-level party creator.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:57 am 
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Are we sure there wasn't Áereth influencing 4e? My timeline-recollecting ability is on the fritz, but it seems... possible.... :wink:

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Gnome Boy (a.k.a. "Jon") • DCC play-tester @ DDC 35, Feb 2011. • Beta DL 2111, 7:00 AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since 1977 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters - Holds the power to play gnomes at will!

Here Be DCC Monsters...

General Yoros, Warrior, Str 13, Agl 8 (10), Stm 17, Per 13, Int 11, Lck 8; Law, HP 39, AC 17, R+2, F+4, W+2, band/shld, warhammer, longsword, longbow, pitchfork

Han Dee, (Weaver) Neutral Thief, Str 10, Agi 13, Stm 11, Per 11, Int 15, Lck 14, AC 13 (Leather), HP 25, Luck Die d6, Backstab 3, Sneak Silently 10, Hide In Shadows 9, Pick Pocket 10, Climb Sheer 10, Pick Lock 9, Find Trap 9, Disable Trap 9, Forge Doc 10, Disguise 3, Read Lang 5, Handle Poison 3, Cast Scroll d14+2, birth augur (Born under the loom) +1 to all skill checks (including thief skills), Banepicks (auto pick lock/disable trap, but lose 1d3 random ability loss, if a 3 then 1 pt is perm)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:10 am 
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Cardinal wrote:
goodmangames wrote:
Maybe it's about time for an update and reprint...


Well, *I* would buy it (even though I'm thinking more & more about turning my Áereth campaign into a GURPS4e Dungeon Fantasy campaign...)

GURPS Aereth. That would be so cool.
I can't find any GURPS players in my area that have compatible schedules. :(

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:38 am 
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CharlieRock wrote:
GURPS Aereth. That would be so cool.


I'm more and more tempted to start a complete conversion - especially with more GURPS Dungeon Fantasy stuff coming up...


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:58 am 
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what's the lure of gurps-to-aereth? i played it decades ago at a convention, so i've forgotten what it was like other than universal

Cardinal wrote:
I'm more and more tempted to start a complete conversion - especially with more GURPS Dungeon Fantasy stuff coming up...


yow. it must be a sweet system to be worth that much work. do they make hard copy or is it all pdf?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:57 pm 
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GURPS4e *is* a sweet system - but I don't think it would be that much work: a few races, some thoughts about the spell lists of clerics, plus maybe 20-40 common monsters - I would convert other beasts one DCC at a time ;)

Dungeon Fantasy is PDF-only right now, but SJG has a policy of creating dead-tree versions of their bestselling e23 GURPS4e PDFs: Mysteries, Supers, Transhuman Space: Changing Times. So: if we buy it, they will print :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:02 am 
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GURPS - it takes way too long to stat up monsters and NPCs for me to enjoy. And what's up with those one second melee rounds? At least in most d20 games you can do two things in a round (or more when you add other action types like swift action).

4E - this is one instance were I can honestly state I'm a Missouri man (Show Me). All this talking about whether you love it or hate it is nothing but a bunch of frantic arm-wavying. The game doesn't hit the streets until late Spring, and I'll have to read it abd perhaps play the one shot adventure before I decide one way or another. I don't want to give up 3.5 yet, but if 4E offers some better rules, I'd be a fool not to use it. I suspect I'll be a "3.75" GM.

Harley - are there any future plans for more Aereth Gazeteers?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:49 am 
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Bento,

Yes. Áereth will see support in 2008. Nothing official to announce yet, but we have a couple of fun, smaller scale project in the works.

//H

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DCC Resource thread: character sheets, judge tools, and the world's fastest 0-level party creator.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:40 am 
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GnomeBoy wrote:
Are we sure there wasn't Áereth influencing 4e? My timeline-recollecting ability is on the fritz, but it seems... possible.... :wink:

Interestingly, I was reading Worlds & Monsters yesterday (that's the 4e setting preview book) and when I came to the Far Realm - an inscrutable, Lovecraftian realm beyond the limits of the sane universe - the first thing I thought of was the Lost Vault of Tsathzar Rho. :)

Of course, that adventure was written by Mike Mearls, who is working on 4e. So I bet he helped push the Far Realm (which first appeared in a 2e product) into the forefront in 4e.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:46 am 
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i have w&m, too. the more i read the more stoked i am. d&d moved towards aereth, not the other way around.

the world design chapters? the text could have been ripped out of dcc #35. so cool. and i know they say you can't convert the characters, but i don't believe it for a minute. a character is a set of ideas swinging around a broadsword .... the rules set just helps me depict how he rains hell down on his foes. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:52 am 
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Warduke wrote:
i have w&m, too. the more i read the more stoked i am. d&d moved towards aereth, not the other way around.

I'll be picking that up today...for, uhh, research. :D

Quote:
and i know they say you can't convert the characters, but i don't believe it for a minute. a character is a set of ideas swinging around a broadsword .... the rules set just helps me depict how he rains hell down on his foes.

Well said. Maybe conversion isn't the word. But recreate? Hell yeah.

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Goodman Games: DCCs: #29, #31, #35, #48, #49, #51; Hero's Handbooks: Dragonborn, Tieflings; Level Up
Wizards of the Coast: The Darkwood Mask
Blindsided Books: Savant
Ashlock.org; NY Speculative Fiction Examiner


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:13 am 
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Warduke wrote:
... i know they say you can't convert the characters, but i don't believe it for a minute. a character is a set of ideas swinging around a broadsword .... the rules set just helps me depict how he rains hell down on his foes. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


That's exactly the approach I took when bringing 2e characters into 3e... case in point, Earth Elementalist Acadamecian Wizard in 2e became Wizard/Mage of the Arcane Order in 3e (with an eye on whatever that Elemental PrC is, if he ever levels up enough to get there). In 2e he had a 7 STR and in 3e a 10, etc, etc. Still played him the same personality-wise.

I don't anticipate any 'conversion' problems, since I'm generally not attached to specific powers anyway..... Attitude makes the man, as it were.

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Gnome Boy (a.k.a. "Jon") • DCC play-tester @ DDC 35, Feb 2011. • Beta DL 2111, 7:00 AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since 1977 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters - Holds the power to play gnomes at will!

Here Be DCC Monsters...

General Yoros, Warrior, Str 13, Agl 8 (10), Stm 17, Per 13, Int 11, Lck 8; Law, HP 39, AC 17, R+2, F+4, W+2, band/shld, warhammer, longsword, longbow, pitchfork

Han Dee, (Weaver) Neutral Thief, Str 10, Agi 13, Stm 11, Per 11, Int 15, Lck 14, AC 13 (Leather), HP 25, Luck Die d6, Backstab 3, Sneak Silently 10, Hide In Shadows 9, Pick Pocket 10, Climb Sheer 10, Pick Lock 9, Find Trap 9, Disable Trap 9, Forge Doc 10, Disguise 3, Read Lang 5, Handle Poison 3, Cast Scroll d14+2, birth augur (Born under the loom) +1 to all skill checks (including thief skills), Banepicks (auto pick lock/disable trap, but lose 1d3 random ability loss, if a 3 then 1 pt is perm)


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