Just houserule it

[smathis]

Shields Shall Be Splintered is a great house rule! I have a "short list" of "other people's house rules I want to include in DCC RPG" and that one's on it...

Yup. One of my favorites too! I second dkeester on the Free Whack and appreciate your approach to the grappling thing.

It's exactly what I was hoping for. I, too, would like something that works within the existing ruleset, plays well and does not require thumbing through the rulebook. Glad to hear that grappling thing is in good hands. Thanks!

[Machpants]

I to agree that the less rule book flipping the better (that is something that 4E does very well, everything on the PC sheet or monster stat block). But how do you balance that with all the crit etc tables you are to include in the game Joseph? I am interested in your thoughts.

[Ravenheart87]

I to agree that the less rule book flipping the better (that is something that 4E does very well, everything on the PC sheet or monster stat block). But how do you balance that with all the crit etc tables you are to include in the game Joseph? I am interested in your thoughts.

It's different when you're looking up tables in a book, and when looking for rules. A good rule is one you always remember after reading it, and you don't need to check it during the game. Also, you can put the various tables on the DM Screen, but you can't put there all the rules you need...
Also, usually you need the rules more often, than critical hit tables.

[Machpants]

^LOL you'd need a 12 panel DM screen for DCC RPG!

[Ravenheart87]

HackMaster 4e's GM shield has 32 panels. Still faster than flipping through your book, unless you bookmarked the tables.

[Machpants]

Really? WOW

I am sure it is, but my ideal would be a single sheet for each monster/encounter/etc and a 3 panel landscape DM screen, plus a 2 page char sheet for each player. And that is all that is all I would like to look during the game 99% of the time. I remember what a pain the crit tables and looking them up was in MERP. So I wonder how Joseph et al are going to present the DCC tables that will be required all the time in such a format to reduce rulebook flipping and faffing.

[mntnjeff]

And that's where a PDF comes in handy. An electronic copy of all the tables in the book would be a super cool feature to offer. That way you'd have guys / gals creating their own DM Screens w/ the charts that they want to see. I do exactly this w/ S&W, on one side of the screen I've got the very few things that the players need to check, item weights, prices, armor classes, etc. along with some "inspirational" art (mostly drawn by my daughters! , and on my side the things a DM needs to see. But it's customized to my specs. Which I think is critical.

I'm able to slip a map into one panel and names into another if I'm running a session in a town. Or a wandering monster list tailored to a desert if the session is taking place there. Etc. You see where I'm going.

I'd be absolutely blown away (pleasantly so) if we see a rule book that comes in under 100 pages. (Including monster and DM section.) Unlike others, I'd pay a higher price for an elegant, stream-lined set of rules. i.e. Higher price for lower page count. (as long as it's well done and comes w/ some neat supplements like the above mentioned pdf) Now this isn't an open invitation to charge an arm and a leg, but I seriously doubt that Joseph would do that on a whim anyway.

[mshensley]

HackMaster 4e's GM shield has 32 panels. Still faster than flipping through your book, unless you bookmarked the tables.

Yeah, the HM screen is really amazing. Those crits tables (d10,000) are still hard as hell to read though. And the results are a bit too dry and clinical for my taste.

[mshensley]

So I wonder how Joseph et al are going to present the DCC tables that will be required all the time in such a format to reduce rulebook flipping and faffing.

Yeah, this is a concern of mine as well.

[Ravenheart87]

I'd be absolutely blown away (pleasantly so) if we see a rule book that comes in under 100 pages. (Including monster and DM section.)

I don't think we'll see a book under 100 pages, but 128 is still an awesome accomplishment. Heck, since it's for both players and DMs, I don't mind if it reaches 192 pages or more - still way smaller than the holy trinity (MM-PHB-DMG) of any editions of (A)D&D.

[Black Dougal]

^LOL you'd need a 12 panel DM screen for DCC RPG!

Interesting idea. The standard 4 panel GM screens don't work that well for me. Perhaps DCC RPG could have a 5 or 6 panel screen?

[Hamakto]

^LOL you'd need a 12 panel DM screen for DCC RPG!

Interesting idea. The standard 4 panel GM screens don't work that well for me. Perhaps DCC RPG could have a 5 or 6 panel screen?

Anyone remember Rolemaster? Now that was a system with a ton of charts!!!!

[Machpants]

Yeah as I said with MERP, all the charts were too much. And I think MERP is cut down from RM

[Ravenheart87]

^LOL you'd need a 12 panel DM screen for DCC RPG!

Interesting idea. The standard 4 panel GM screens don't work that well for me. Perhaps DCC RPG could have a 5 or 6 panel screen?

Anyone remember Rolemaster? Now that was a system with a ton of charts!!!!

Only played MERP, which uses a lighter version of the Rolemaster, but I remember it had charts for almost everything.

[goodmangames]

I to agree that the less rule book flipping the better (that is something that 4E does very well, everything on the PC sheet or monster stat block). But how do you balance that with all the crit etc tables you are to include in the game Joseph? I am interested in your thoughts.

The crit tables are on the front of my home-made DM screen, facing the players. There's no page flipping. I ask the player nearest to my screen to read the result on the side facing him.

I need to add a couple more tables (spellburn, fumbles, turning) which also get referenced frequently. But it's all doable with the right DM screen.

(I'll eventually publish a DM screen that has all this available.)

In my mind, there's a difference between consulting a table and consulting a rule. Consulting a rule slows things down, requires reading, and sometimes requires adjudication. Consulting a table is just like reading a sentence or two that corresponds to your roll. At least in my head, the latter is easier than the former!

[goodmangames]

P.S. Here's a photo of my 8-panel screen in action:

Link to Ogrecave on Facebook

(If that link doesn't come through, find OgreCave on Facebook and go to their DunDraCon 35 gallery...photo #19...

The screen is my 3.5 screen (from DCC #39) with various DCC RPG tables taped over it (plus some cover art). Right now I'm not using all 8 panels...not sure that I will really need to...I think DCC RPG will be doable with a 4-panel table, but we'll see how it progresses.

P.S. That's GnomeBoy in the back left corner of the shot!

[Machpants]

Thanks and I entirely agree looking up rules takes much longer than looking up pure game facts (such as tables). Maybe there will be less tables than I was picturing, a decent GM (EDIT: Screen LOL Freudian slip) is always a must. Although your 8 paneler looks a little large for my tastes LOL.

[smathis]

In my mind, there's a difference between consulting a table and consulting a rule. Consulting a rule slows things down, requires reading, and sometimes requires adjudication. Consulting a table is just like reading a sentence or two that corresponds to your roll. At least in my head, the latter is easier than the former!

I'm in agreement here. I use both the Toolbox book by AEG and Mythic GM Emulator when I run games. Consulting tables in either takes considerably less time than looking up Stealth rules in 4e or Grappling rules in 3e. Although sometimes it takes a while to find the table I want in the big Toolbox book.

[mshensley]

I think the ideal thing would be that each class gets its own specific character sheet with its crit tables on the back.

[GnomeBoy]

P.S. That's GnomeBoy in the back left corner of the shot!

Thanks for linking to that pic, Joe -- my ear has never looked better!

[kataskicana]

I apologize for coming WAY late to a thread, but I'm trying to catch up on everything!

I totally agree that non-lethal fights are a big part of Appendix N. However, I don't think they require special rules. Once players are aware that being captured is not only an option (opposed to death), but is inevitable... they seem to start to embrace it. (A big part of any good pulp campaign IMO).

If players are still resistant to the idea of surrenduring, then put on the DM pants:

DM: The guards have you surrounded and several have you covered with crossbows.
Players: Who cares - we attack!
DM: (Looks at unruliest player )(rolls dice - doesn't look at result) you get cracked in the back of the skull by something hard and blunt... you black out. "Yield now or your big friend here gets his throat cut!"

etc...

Being captured is a great way to advance the plot or tell many interesting stories you can't do if every bad guy you ever see is hacked down in 5 seconds.

[geordie racer]

We played a light d20 game last night with some of the proposed DCC rpg stuff grafted on.

- characters were 5th level, adventure was approx the same level, when a character died we let the player roll d5 to see which level his new character was. (He rolled a 2 ). We all thought this fairer than having all replacements start at zero, unless we'd allowed the replacement to be 3 0-level PCs.


So I think it's gonna be our new houserule:

'when a character of level 3+ dies, the player rolls a dice equal (or in the case of 9th level, d8+1) to the level of the highest surviving character in the party, to determine his new character's level. When characters of level 2 or less die, their replacement starts at level 0. At whatever level, if the replacement character dies that session, start the next at level 0. A player may choose beforehand to have three 0-level PCs as a replacement rather than rolling.'

Without having to work out feats/skills this wasn't too slow a process. Mind if all the PCs start dying (and you're too scared/unconcerned to invoke a patron to resurrect fallen comrades)..oh dear, you could all end up low level

[finarvyn]

The crit tables are on the front of my home-made DM screen, facing the players. There's no page flipping. I ask the player nearest to my screen to read the result on the side facing him.

Interesting. For my home-made DM screen, I put the crit tables on the inside so that the players couldn't see them. I thought the surprise of what happens would be better.

Just curious as to what others do with stuff like that. Inside or outside of the GM screen?

[WoozleWozzle]

* I am continually impressed that every pre-1980 edition of D&D managed to pack the entire rules set into 64 pages, give or take. I believe that modern rules "bloat" is one entry barrier for the hobby. Plus I know that many of us are grown-ups now, without an entire summer to blow learning a new game, and I'd really like to publish a game that is actually playable by a significant chunk of the gaming population - which means easy to grasp, easy to learn, and not a massive tome. As such, I am focused on a relatively short rulebook as the primarily (and probably only) rules product. There won't be a PHB, DMG, MM, etc. There will be one book. Maybe a rules supplement once a year or something to support any evolution of the game, but not much more than that.

I really like the sound of that.

One of the reasons that I think the rules fit into 64 pages was the fact that the authors knew they couldn't fit every game situation into the rules as 3e and 4e try to do. Or perhaps they just didn't want to try to account for every situation in the rules.

I agree.

And while we are at it. If you have any fun housrules to share, please post them.

I try not to use many hourserules. I think they lead to a worse situation than large rulesbooks. At least with many specific rules in a book, a new player can buy that book and read over them in his free time. With many houserules things are harder to learn in advance and to pick up in between sessions unless a lot of work has gone into forging a homemade thick rulebook.

I am, however, a big fan of table rulings > written rules. Matthew Finch's essay A Quick Primer for Old School Gaming has a section at the beginning that sums up my thoughts nicely.

[moes1980]

How about making disarm/sunder actions be avalible to fighters that succed on a DoMA? That sounds like a real simple way to introduce those rules into the game (and any one that is not a fighter just dosn't have the training to disarm or sunder).

You can also chang disarm to droped wepaon and sunder to shield breaks for fumble results (there is a fumble table in this game, I assume).

As for grabling, just write up something short and sweet, and something that will be basically usless in most combats (who in their right mind would grabble a troll any way?)