Goodman Games

mshensley wrote:I also seem to remember people prebuying the C&C CKG and had to wait years and years before it ever came out. (Did it ever come out? It's been so long, I stopped caring.)

Just a couple of things to mention here:
1. The CKG is being released by Troll Lord Games "as we speak" -- the digest sized hardback is out already and pre-orders for the regular hardback are to be filled within days.
2. A common misconception about C&C is that the CKG is needed in order to play. C&C is a complete game without the CKG, which is simply a bunch of optional expansion rules. I've played C&C since 2003 with no need for any books other than the PH and Monsters & Treasure.
3. As far as I know no pre-orders were accepted until very recently, when the CKG was essentlially done and in final proofreading/layout stages. I don't think that anyone paid and then waited for years.

However, I understand your concern. I've bought products from companies, only to have the stuff never get completed and often see the company vanish without a trace. Sometimes I get angry about it, but more often I just get sad that they tried and couldn't deliver. With all of their publishing credits I don't believe that Goodman Games will fall into this abyss so I'm willing to gamble, but I can certainly understand why others might not be so willing.

finarvyn wrote:I've bought products from companies, only to have the stuff never get completed and often see the company vanish without a trace. Sometimes I get angry about it, but more often I just get sad that they tried and couldn't deliver. With all of their publishing credits I don't believe that Goodman Games will fall into this abyss so I'm willing to gamble, but I can certainly understand why others might not be so willing.

I've always felt Goodman Games was very solid and that they delivered really quality products. Other companies I might feel wary about a pre-order 9 months out. Not Goodman Games. I'm confident that they'll deliver if they say they're doing it and they're taking money for it. I'm hoping it releases even a bit earlier. But I understand that's not typical for the RPG industry. And if it winds up being a month or two late, it's probably only to buy time to make it that much more awesome.

From some of the things described (and some of the playtests), I am strongly reminded by a lot of games from the early 80s that were sort of clones of D&D, but not quite. Arduin, that one from Bard Games, Palladium's system, even BRP, really.

Basically taking the core stuff from D&D (six stats, hit points, etc) but renaming them. While this is not necessarily a bad thing (well, except in Palladium's case), at the same time I always got the feeling "Why not just play D&D?"

Especially the renamed stats. If you are going to copy the six, why not use the same names? It seems like change just for the sake of change, not actual improvement.

trancejeremy wrote:Especially the renamed stats. If you are going to copy the six, why not use the same names? It seems like change just for the sake of change, not actual improvement.

Well, Wisdom isn't just renamed to Luck- it's a whole new stat and mechanic from what I've read. Also the combat and spellcasting mechanics look to be a lot more entertaining than what D&D offers.

You bring up an excellent question, however, about renaming stats.

On one hand, keeping the same names makes the game more familiar and easier to convert modules from other systems into DCC rpg. On the other hand, if the game is too familar it's possible that some folks will pidgen-hole it as a "such and such game" without giving it a real look.

Personally I'd rather use as many of the old stat names as possible, and I'm likely to change them for my home-made character sheets so as to confuse my players less. I'd be interested in hearing Joseph's thoughts on this...

I'm guessing that the stats that did get renamed (dexterity - agility, constitution - stamina, charisma - personality) were done just because the new names are easier for complete beginners to understand. Seriously, who outside of D&D players use words like dexterity, constitution, or charisma?

finarvyn wrote:On one hand, keeping the same names makes the game more familiar and easier to convert modules from other systems into DCC rpg. On the other hand, if the game is too familar it's possible that some folks will pidgen-hole it as a "such and such game" without giving it a real look.

This is right on. Forcing in some simple differences will make people recognize that it's a different game. Half the time I still call it "Dexterity" when I'm in the game...I have to remind myself to say "Agility." But it will help newcomers grok that it's a different game from the beginning.

As a side note, I still have to keep editing out "Dexterity" from Harley's module manuscripts. It's "Agility" dammit!!!

goodmangames wrote:As a side note, I still have to keep editing out "Dexterity" from Harley's module manuscripts. It's "Agility" dammit!!!

He must have made a bet that he could sneak one Dexterity by you and into print.

DCCfan wrote:

goodmangames wrote:As a side note, I still have to keep editing out "Dexterity" from Harley's module manuscripts. It's "Agility" dammit!!!

He must have made a bet that he could sneak one Dexterity by you and into print.

In that case, I bet he wins. Somewhere he'll slip one in. Maybe as part of an image of a character sheet, where spellcheck can't find it.

Too bad, though. "Dex check" has a neat ring to it. One that "Agl check" (pronounced "agg-uhl") just doen't copy well.

Maybe you should change the name of Stamina to something else like Endurance? That way each stat begins with a different letter which would make it a bit easier to write out a stat block. (of course, changing back to constitution would work too as charisma is no longer around)

Agility...

Strength...

Endurance...

Luck...

Intelligence...

Personality....



Add a Fighting stat and change Luck to something that starts with an "R" and I think we'll have something here! (F..A..S..E..R..I..P!)