Questions about saving throw rules

[shawman]

So I am a little confused about the saving throw rules. Can players/monsters make a saving throws against any attack? also, why do creatures that I have seen published in encounters have such high saving throw modifiers?

Also I am curious why when judges generate creatures they list the hit dice they used to generate the number. the same thing goes for a DC check for a skill or some special attack. I've seen a number listed for the DC needed then a dice number listed next to it in parantheses.

thanks!

[Raven_Crowking]

So I am a little confused about the saving throw rules. Can players/monsters make a saving throws against any attack? also, why do creatures that I have seen published in encounters have such high saving throw modifiers?

Saving throw modifiers imply vulnerabilities and resistances (or ability to avoid, in the case of Reflexes) certain types of attacks/dangers. If I think a creature should be hard to mind control, for instance, I will give it a high Will save modifier. Compared to a human, an elephant would have a high Fort save modifier, but a low Reflex modifier.

Also I am curious why when judges generate creatures they list the hit dice they used to generate the number. the same thing goes for a DC check for a skill or some special attack. I've seen a number listed for the DC needed then a dice number listed next to it in parantheses.

Hit Dice sometimes determine how a creature is affected by a spell or power, and determines their Crit die. If you have a horde of beastmen with 4 hp each in a module, some judges prefer to roll hp individually, and having the Hit Dice information allows them to easily do so.

thanks!

You are welcome!

[GnomeBoy]

Can players/monsters make a saving throws against any attack?

That's what Armor Class (AC) is for... Saves are for other types of effects like poisons or weird special abilities, or spells, and so on. Often for effects that just happen (like some spells, or dragon breath effects), but you have a chance to avoid the full effect or to shake off the effect entirely.

For example, if I've got a monster that can infect your character with some disease, you will probably make a Fortitude Save against that effect, rather than the monster needing to make an attack roll vs. your AC -- although, it could take an attack (say, with a stinger) to inject the disease effect, in which case the monster makes an attack, and if it is successful the PC takes damage and then makes a Save to avoid the additional effect. It all depends on the circumstances.

[shawman]

Great that clarifies it for me. I assumed players could make a fort save against normal attacks.

could you give me an example in which a player uses their reflex save?

[Raven_Crowking]

could you give me an example in which a player uses their reflex save?

A dragon breathes on the PC, automatically hitting, but doing half damage if they can dodge out of the way (DC 10 + dragon's HD).

Having been struck on a narrow precipice, the PC must succeed in a Reflex save to avoid falling (ex. DC 5 + damage taken). The PC may receive an additional Reflex save (ex. DC 10) to catch the ledge, and be dangling over the abyss, on a failed save.

Dodging the bursts of hot mud while crossing the chamber requires a Reflex save. The save DC is DC 10 to quickly cross the room, DC 15 to reach the area where McGuffin sits on a stone shelf.

[GnomeBoy]

could you give me an example in which a player uses their reflex save?

If you can jump out of the way, duck behind or under something to avoid something else, jump over something, all of which is about to harm you, that's when you make Reflex Save. As Raven says, avoiding the worst of the dragon's breath is a Reflex Save (sometimes you Save for half of the damage, if it's something you can't really avoid (like an avalanche or something).

If you're jumping from one rooftop to another, it's probably a Sill check.

[Ravenheart87]

The rules usually mention in the description when an attack or spell goes against a saving throw.