Walking into the Den of Bias ;)

[Disemvowel]

So, I am in the position to run a group of local gamers through an OSR campaign. My choices are swords&wizardry, or dcc. My reservations with dcc is that I have three and one half complete newbies. I am worried their patience, based on their personal veiws of pathfinder and savage worlds, will run out with the zocci dice, charts, and magic.

So, has anyone here ever run dcc with one or more blank slates?

They loved dragon age and old d&d, but found pathfinder and sw too crunchy.

I have run DCC before, but with gamers. In this group only one player of the five is a true gamer.

Thoughts?

[Gameogre]

Brand new players in my experience react better to DCC RPG than experienced gamers. People dislike change even if they say they like it. What experienced gamers mean when they want change is they want the exact same as always but with a key 1% difference that makes it better. Funky dice they don't have,rolling on charts for things they always had set rules for. Having things be MORE difficult for there characters....these add up to a larger possibility for unhappiness. (Even if you and I know what they are missing).

Brand new gamers are a blank slate. They don't know anything and have little if any preset notions of what is good or normal.

New gamers rock and will learn DCC RPG easily.

[GnomeBoy]

I've certainly seen games with more charts (or other stuff to look up), and what there is in DCC doesn't come up all the time. A lot of the charts are character creation charts, and are easier to deal with than navigating which feats to choose or what skill points to put where for a newbie to 3.x or Pathfinder. Crit charts and Fumble charts only come up in special cases, obviously, and you can certainly go a whole session without needing to refer to any of them.

Wizards or Elves aren't going to have that heavy a load of spells to track if you're starting at 1st level. It's the Cleric that has a lot of spell options, but you can guide them in those choices, if they need the help.

[Ravenheart87]

I always have newbie and experienced players too in my groups. None of them had any problem with learning Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, HackMaster Basic or DCC RPG. All of them had problem with leveling up and using their powers effectively in the super-streamlined and easy to learn D&D 4e...

[Ogrepuppy]

I take a differing view: the DCC RPG explicitly says that it's a game made for experienced players.

Have them use Purple Sorcerer's Crawler Companion on their phones to overcome the Zocchi dice issue. It's VERY useful.

Have the more experienced gamer help the noobs.

And just be wary--the tables (especially for crits/fumbles and both kinds of magic-users, as Gnomie mentioned) can get.....tedious....for players who are already crying about Pathfinder's "complexity". (The Crawler Companion can help with that, too.)

Plus....y'know....they're gonna die.

A LOT.

(If you're doing it right.)

[oncelor]

I'm running a campaign with players who only had very little role-playing experience with "Labyrinth Lord." I introduced the DCC elements gradually, over several sessions. I gave the spellcasters only two very simple spells each, I gave the warrior a couple concrete things to do with MDoA results, and we played without options like spell-burn for the first few sessions. When I could, I introduced rules as they arose naturally during play; for example, when one of the characters wanted to dive off a cliff into a very shallow lake I introduced the concept of burning luck. After a couple sessions they were so interested in their characters that they started to read the rest of the rules on their own. We played with few charts at first -- fumbles were just dropped weapons, criticals were just an extra die of damage; when I added these I made sure that everybody got a printout of all the tables he needed so nobody had to look up anything.

[Rostranor]

DCC is great in that you can learn the rules in stages. The zero level PC funnel is great because its like a rules lite version of the game. Once they reach first level the game opens up, but you can always have them take longer to reach first level or just let them know some classes have more charts.

Tips I used to be successful:
I bought a table set of zocchi dice. I picked up the big honking white ones someone on the forum was selling. They were great because I could tell if someone tried to walk off with them.

I also made a cheat sheet with some game info. What to roll for what etc. this also included a roll this for x zocchi die result for those who wanted to use their own dice.

[GnomeBoy]

Speaking of cheat sheets... http://peoplethemwithmonsters.blogspot. ... heets.html

[Skyscraper]

I think that playing a funnel (level 0) adventure in DCC is as simple as it gets. The only complexity is that you have several PCs (e.g. 4).

Level 0's have next to no abilities, next to no equipment, and really the game is not about your character sheet but your imagination. The two things that need to be consulted occasionally are (1) the two items the character starts out with; and (2) the occupation.

We've played 5 sessions at level 0 and it was honestly a blast. Sure, some PCs died, and that made it all the more interesting. The frailty of the PCs is an upside. Players barely looked at their sheets and when they did, they found what they wanted within 5 seconds at most. There was no reference to the book required, even though everyone including myself as a DM was playing for the first time. (I had read the rules thoroughly however.) We had some cheat sheets prepared for fumble and crit charts and used those. We even rolled up our character sheets ourselves, for the laughs, but could have used the purple sorcerer character generator that generates a set of 4 level 0's automatically (it's all random determination anyway, except for alignment, sex and name that are left black by the generator).

I really like the general feel of DCC. The gritty, your-no-good-peasant-is-going-to-die-when-he-encounters-a-supernatural-force approach is great fun. The players really move cautiously because they know. They know that their 3 hit point gong farmer with his sack of nightsoil isn't going to make it if they set their foot in the wrong spot. And the satisfaction of using that sack of nightsoil is just so great as a player.

The PCs have now levelled up. That took about 45-60 minutes, because no one knew the rules well and we only had 2 books for 5 people.

Anyway, fun is the DCC descriptor.

I do not know Swords and Wizardry, I'm sure it has its upsides also.

Have fun!

[Disemvowel]

Very much appreciate the feedback. I suppose I am just wary of turning off gamers, but yes, so far the new players have taken to gaming like lightning. I ran them through Mentzer and they loved it. I was told it was the best time they had in gaming yet, and that is with a 2hp elf and a missed secret door which led to a TPK...they laughed and still bring up parts of that dungeon run, so there is hope.

My biggest hope is that, as stated, the zocci set and the charts do not come up all that often. And in the case of spell casters, the moderate or hardcore gamer will more than likely gravitate to those; the two females love playing fighter-types, and the other newbie likes thieves.

It is both cathartic and re-assuring bouncing thoughts off of the community. TY!

[themightyeroc]

Very much appreciate the feedback. I suppose I am just wary of turning off gamers, but yes, so far the new players have taken to gaming like lightning. I ran them through Mentzer and they loved it. I was told it was the best time they had in gaming yet, and that is with a 2hp elf and a missed secret door which led to a TPK...they laughed and still bring up parts of that dungeon run, so there is hope.
TY!

That sounds like this group will have a Great time with the Zero-level adventure, and what an Awesome reward it will be for them to upgrade the survivors to 1st level!

After you run the Zero adventure, ask them if they want to continue. I bet you get a unanimous "Yes". If not then run S&W, but at least they will be able to make an informed decision.

P.S. I would run them through Sailors of the Starless Sea, that is what hooked my group of hardcore 3edition guys.

[Ogrepuppy]

Very much appreciate the feedback. I suppose I am just wary of turning off gamers, but yes, so far the new players have taken to gaming like lightning. I ran them through Mentzer and they loved it. I was told it was the best time they had in gaming yet, and that is with a 2hp elf and a missed secret door which led to a TPK...they laughed and still bring up parts of that dungeon run, so there is hope.

If this is the situation, then I can 100% endorse DCC RPG as your "go-to" game, especially starting them off as 0-levels and gradually introducing elements as desired.

(And to clarify just a bit, my comments were more for higher-level play. I agree with Skyscraper: a 0-level funnel is as simple as it gets.)

[Disemvowel]

Thanks for the discussion folks. I am now committed. I am running a DCC campaign, levels 0-? Everyone has been clamoring for a moderate-length run...this is it.

I'll post updates.

S