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 Post subject: So GG is not putting out more DCC rulebooks?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:22 pm 
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I see some 3rd party action starting already. But call me disappointed, as 3rd party sources are often unbalanced and unplaytested. No offense meant to these folks who create the stuff.

The game is really ripe for:

More Monsters
More Spells
More Races
More Classes
More Patrons/Gods/Pantheons
More Equipment
And levels 10 - 20!

Each could be a new book, really.


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 Post subject: Re: So GG is not putting out more DCC rulebooks?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:26 pm 
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It's your sandbox, make some.

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2: Detect Invisible, Levitate (extremely difficult, d14), Mirror Image (20% chance to raise/lower luck by 1d3 points).
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 Post subject: Re: So GG is not putting out more DCC rulebooks?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:55 pm 
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A lot of us are pretty happy with the current set of rules and the gaps it easily allows us to play in. A lot of the things you mention in your post are ripe for judges to fill in the gaps with what fits in their world.

We can use monster manuals and other bestiaries for inspiration if need be and convert them to DCC RPG or even mash up monsters for truly unusual beasts. More spells can be unique or crafted by the player's character and obtained by questing after unique components or bits of knowledge. And so on and so on.

I do believe Goodman Games is planning on releasing an annual book which will add to the system, but I believe the preference is to not flood the market with rules supplements. Also, don't overlook the modules as they will often contain new bits within them that you can yank for your own game as well.


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 Post subject: Re: So GG is not putting out more DCC rulebooks?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:06 pm 
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The plan is for Goodman Games to focus on modules, which is something they are really good at. Others can do "third party" rules add-ons, monster books, or whatever else they want.

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 Post subject: Re: So GG is not putting out more DCC rulebooks?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:23 pm 
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I'd hate to see DCC hit the official rules treadmill; to me, a decent annual is the best approach to avoid the deluge of splatbooks that drown other fantasy rpgs. Besides, a hefty chunk of the third party material is actually pretty good (so far at least). For example, the 2nd issue of Crawl! has an expanded equipment list and some new weapons that cover those areas not already covered in the main rulebook, as well as other great articles. It's cheap, well-written, and delivered to your door.

As regards two of your desires, More Monsters is something already addressed by a few things. 1) DCC RPG is one where "standard" monsters are supposed to be uncommon. 2) That means that many adventures will feature unique beasties, and the DCC modules already do. 3) Add in the fact that the rulebook has several random generators and means of customizing critters, and you're looking good for your monster needs, especially if 4) you already have a copy of the fantastic Random Esoteric Creature Generator.

Levels 10 - 20 really isn't needed unless you want immortal level play, because the levels in DCC do not directly equate to levels in editions of D&D. In fact, many assumptions based on D&D don't necessarily suit DCC and its sources. Levelled DCC characters are generally more powerful and capable than their D&D counterparts, so a 10th level DCC character is already likely equal to a 20th level D&D character anyway. A level 9 DCC character, for example, is described as "The best there ever was", and occurs only once in every 10,000,000 people! A level 10 character is described as "an immortal or demi-god"!

cheers!
Colin


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 Post subject: Re: So GG is not putting out more DCC rulebooks?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:00 pm 
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Yes, let's avoid rules bloat please!

I like the idea of 'this is the game' from Goodman Games.

It was a major selling point. Expanding things through modules and a yearbook sounds perfect..

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 Post subject: Re: So GG is not putting out more DCC rulebooks?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:00 pm 
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Wasn't the purpose (the original one at least) of DCC RPG to support the modules so that Goodman wouldn't have to rely on D&D version X or all the other system wars going on? In that sense, it makes sense that there is a single rule book and that Goodman focuses on the one thing they are passionate about: adventures!


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 Post subject: Re: So GG is not putting out more DCC rulebooks?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:27 pm 
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No 3pp will hit the shelves without having gone through GG quality control. It's part of the licensing agreement.

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 Post subject: Re: So GG is not putting out more DCC rulebooks?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:13 pm 
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Colin wrote:
the fantastic Random Esoteric Creature Generator


The only monster book you'll ever need. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: So GG is not putting out more DCC rulebooks?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:43 pm 
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cthulhudarren wrote:
I see some 3rd party action starting already. But call me disappointed, as 3rd party sources are often unbalanced and unplaytested. No offense meant to these folks who create the stuff.

The game is really ripe for:
...
More Patrons/Gods/Pantheons
...

If you're looking for Patrons, some members of these forums are supporting this project:
http://www.indiegogo.com/Unusualsuspects?a=939800

There's also a separate thread devoted to it:
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=41874


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 Post subject: Re: So GG is not putting out more DCC rulebooks?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:05 pm 
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RevTurkey wrote:
Yes, let's avoid rules bloat please!

I like the idea of 'this is the game' from Goodman Games.

It was a major selling point. Expanding things through modules and a yearbook sounds perfect..

Here here!


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 Post subject: Re: So GG is not putting out more DCC rulebooks?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:08 pm 
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It wont be like many of the books that came out when 3rd edition gave the OGL. Some of those were laughable.


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 Post subject: Re: So GG is not putting out more DCC rulebooks?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:12 pm 
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Personally, I think leaving the rules alone is the best idea. Part of the reason I lost interest with D&D (and several other games) was because they became over explained. Part of what I like is the mystery of a bizarre fantasy world. Once every nook, cranny and monster has been cataloged, alphabetized and explained into the ground, its not weird anymore.

I'd like to see Goodman support the game in other ways. I know they are all about "miniatures are not essential" (and they aren't), but a line of old school minis designed by the likes of Erol Otus, Dee, and Mullen? (amongst others) well, I'm in.

I think most of us would love to see "Official" dice for the game. I even think a Boxed edition of the game would be nice. Where DCCRPG is all about Old School, an Old School box set (with dice and crayon) is in order.


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 Post subject: Re: So GG is not putting out more DCC rulebooks?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:09 am 
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No plans for additional rules supplements. I would like the same "easy of entry" 5 years from now as exists now: 1 rulebook, 1 easy choice, no "catching up" to pre-existing players. One additional Annual each year, with optional material, based on learnings and inspirations from that previous year's play. And a boatload of modules!

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 Post subject: Re: So GG is not putting out more DCC rulebooks?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:17 am 
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cthulhudarren wrote:
I see some 3rd party action starting already. But call me disappointed, as 3rd party sources are often unbalanced and unplaytested. No offense meant to these folks who create the stuff.

Goodman Games has to approve every third party product as far as I know. Balance in a game, which puts so much emphasis on randomness is not really an issue. Some third party publishers have been working on their stuff since the beta version and use them in their own campaigns, thus I think they had enough time and opportunity to playtest their content. ;)

Quote:
The game is really ripe for:

More Monsters

You can create one in a few minutes and you have plenty of stuff to use for customization. And as others mentioned, we have an awesome Random Esoteric Creature Generator.

Quote:
More Spells

Most of the current spells cover more than one. But I do agree, writing spells for DCC RPG requires quite a bit of work.

Quote:
More Races

It's quite easy to write races, especially if you're not going the race-as-class way. My campaign is going to need a lot, and a few of them will be quite extreme.

Quote:
More Classes

I was planning to write a few, but changed my mind (at least for now): the already existing classes cover quite a lot. If the PC wants to enhance his class (eg. his warrior wants to be a paladin), then send him on a quest (kill the plague demon of Khazardan and your god gives you the ability to lay hands). I'm going to write some guidelines if I'm going to have some free time, as I promised it months ago.

Quote:
More Patrons/Gods/Pantheons

There are a lot of 3pps working on patrons. ;)

Quote:
More Equipment

There are already plenty of resources published for both mundane and magical equipment. You don't need the official DCC RPG seal to use them. If you want an exhausting list of equipment, I recommend ...And a 10-Foot Pole.

Quote:
And levels 10 - 20!

So far reaching level 10 seems to be long and nigh-impossible task. Don't forget, that the levels scale differently here than in D&D. DCC's level 10 is like 3e's level 20.

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 Post subject: Re: So GG is not putting out more DCC rulebooks?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:30 am 
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Boat load of modules! Hurray! Joseph and Harley are cool.

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 Post subject: Re: So GG is not putting out more DCC rulebooks?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:46 am 
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goodmangames wrote:
I would like the same "easy of entry" 5 years from now as exists now: 1 rulebook, 1 easy choice...
Thirty-one alternate covers to choose from... :lol:

The "one rulebook" model has failed, Joseph. I already own three core rulebooks and see two more on the horizon to buy. 8)

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"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
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"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
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 Post subject: Re: So GG is not putting out more DCC rulebooks?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:50 am 
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ghostisluminous wrote:
Personally, I think leaving the rules alone is the best idea. Part of the reason I lost interest with D&D (and several other games) was because they became over explained. Part of what I like is the mystery of a bizarre fantasy world. Once every nook, cranny and monster has been cataloged, alphabetized and explained into the ground, its not weird anymore.


Agreed. Rulebook overload has diminished my interest in more than one RPG. Most recently Pathfinder.


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 Post subject: Re: So GG is not putting out more DCC rulebooks?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:19 am 
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Karaptis wrote:
It wont be like many of the books that came out when 3rd edition gave the OGL. Some of those were laughable.

I would say most added nothing essential to the core game


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 Post subject: Re: So GG is not putting out more DCC rulebooks?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:44 am 
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Oh I certainly agree that too many rules supplements spoil the game, but I think there could be a happy medium. 1st Ed did it pretty well.

There is certainly room for at least one "official" monster manual, and spells seem difficult to write IMHO.


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 Post subject: Re: So GG is not putting out more DCC rulebooks?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:46 am 
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cthulhudarren wrote:
Oh I certainly agree that too many rules supplements spoil the game, but I think there could be a happy medium. 1st Ed did it pretty well.

There is certainly room for at least one "official" monster manual, and spells seem difficult to write IMHO.

I have to, so I apologize:

1st Edition was completely off its rocker in regards to rule supplements - you needed 3 just to have the game in the first place, and they have release dates spanning 3 years for just those.

"Here's your monster manual" Yay! ...wait, where do I figure out how to make a character? "In the D&D game boxed set, until next year at least."
"Here's your player's handbook" Finally, I can make an actually A D&D character. ...where's the section for advanced DM stuff? Lemme guess, another book next year?
"Yup."

D&D has a history of being way outside most people's idea of "happy medium" between expansion upon the game and avoidance of that "bloat" feeling.

My personal feeling on the matter is that there are only three games currently in the world, as far as I know, that leave me feeling satisfied about either how many rulebooks I already own to play the game or how many I "have to" buy to have what I "need" to play the game: Dungeon Crawl Classics and Call of Cthulhu which can be run for the rest of my life with just the 1 rulebook each and still have mystery and "fresh" feelings when I start up a campaign, and Shadowrun - which has basically always had a set number of "core" books, regardless of how many came out, and has solidified that in their 4th edition with a grand total of 6 core rulebooks (1 big one and 5 little ones with specific topics) making up the "needed" rules and most other major releases being plot/adventure or setting material.


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 Post subject: Re: So GG is not putting out more DCC rulebooks?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:47 am 
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Thank you, Goodman team. One rulebook to rule them all... I like that you guys are fixing errata, and adding the index to future releases. Other than that, why mess with something that is truly original, knows what it is and what it is not, and ISN'T attempting to please everyone (and as a result not pleasing anyone.)

What I've tended to notice is that many players get hung up on rulesets and edition wars. Some folks would rather read and collect different systems than actually play the game.

As The Bard said: "The Play is the thing," meaning that the adventures you are actually enjoying really more important than this rule or that rule. The moment-to-moment experience of gaming is SO much more gratifying and rewarding than being a rules wonk -- comparing and arguing over what rules from what version are better.

I say, take that analysis and time and put it into the actual act of gaming itself! So many finicky little rule bits that people argue about tend to evaporate or take care of themselves in actual play at the table.

Let the action of the adventure be your focus and you will be greatly rewarded, trust me.


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 Post subject: Re: So GG is not putting out more DCC rulebooks?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:31 am 
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Cold-Blooded Diabolist

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TheNobleDrake wrote:
cthulhudarren wrote:
Oh I certainly agree that too many rules supplements spoil the game, but I think there could be a happy medium. 1st Ed did it pretty well.

There is certainly room for at least one "official" monster manual, and spells seem difficult to write IMHO.

I have to, so I apologize:

1st Edition was completely off its rocker in regards to rule supplements - you needed 3 just to have the game in the first place, and they have release dates spanning 3 years for just those.

"Here's your monster manual" Yay! ...wait, where do I figure out how to make a character? "In the D&D game boxed set, until next year at least."
"Here's your player's handbook" Finally, I can make an actually A D&D character. ...where's the section for advanced DM stuff? Lemme guess, another book next year?
"Yup."


I guess it never affected me so I never noticed that. It would have been annoying. The first time I played the 1st Ed game, the rulebooks were already there.

I'd still like an official DCC monster manual and more spells, at least. But of course it isn't my decision to make.


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 Post subject: Re: So GG is not putting out more DCC rulebooks?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:35 am 
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I assume that my post won't change anything to "the plans", but I agree with the OP.

Not that I want to be swarmed with splat books, mind you.

But the monster, patron and spell lists in the core book are short. And some magic items would be fun to have too.

This is not the first time this topic is brought up and one response that seems to surface each time is "we don't want more rules because we like the flux that results from the present rules". The flux is fine; all I'm saying is that I'd like more content based on the same rules, not more rules.

I also hear people saying "you can design your own monsters/magic items/spells/patrons" using either other RPGs as inspiration, or using this or that random generator. Sure, I can even probably design my own rules and my own game :wink: :lol: The point of buying stuff is to not have to do it yourself. And random generators do... random stuff. I'm not looking for random stuff, I'm looking for flavorful ready-to-use playtested game elements that will help me design my adventures.

I also hear the comments that original monsters and other stuff are present in adventures. Ok, that's great, but if I want monsters I don't feel like buying a bunch of adventures just to loot a few monsters per adventure. This is obviously not a solution, with all due respect.

So simply put me in the group of people that say "this game is great, but I'd be a client for more content". If "the plans" are also in a flux, perhaps enough people voicing this opinion will eventually lead to the yearly book including what is being asked, who knows?

Cheers!

Sky

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Brother Sufferus, level 4 cleric, STR 13 (+1) AGI 15 (+1) STA 11 PER 13 (+1) INT 10 LUCK 9, AC: 11 (13 if wounded, 15 if down to half hit points), Refl: +3 Fort: +2 Will: +3, chaotic, Robe of the Faith, Scourge of the Maimed One, Darts of Pain.


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 Post subject: Re: So GG is not putting out more DCC rulebooks?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:04 am 
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Skyscraper wrote:
So simply put me in the group of people that say "this game is great, but I'd be a client for more content". If "the plans" are also in a flux, perhaps enough people voicing this opinion will eventually lead to the yearly book including what is being asked, who knows?

I too would be a client for more content. I'm especially hungry for a bit more detail on the gods. I like what Raven_Crowking did in this post, for example:
viewtopic.php?p=80476#p80476

In the DCC rulebook, I think Goodman does a nice job of "fleshing out" a small number of Patrons, in order for a judge to get a feel for how to do more. I'd like to see a similar set of examples for Gods and thier relationships to Clerics (favored spells for followers, what they consider to be sinful, special forms of disapproval, etc.).


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