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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:33 am 
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Hi all,

I believe that for most of the people that gravitate towards the DCC RPG, one of the appeals of the game is that it is fairly simple and straightforward (freeing up the Judge and players to get on with gaming), and that in posing this question, quite a few responses to this topic could easily be assumed to be "I wouldn't change a thing, I love it exactly as it is."

Being fully aware of that consideration, I thought I would still ask: If you were going to create an "Advanced" version of the Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG, what would you add to the game?

I've been thinking on it a bit, but haven't come up with a comprehensive personal list as of yet, so I wanted to see what ideas other people might have. One caveat that I know I would want to keep is compatibility with the existing DCC game and modules, but that is about as far as I have gotten.

One thing the players in my gaming group have mentioned would be splitting race from class in following the tradition of AD&D. Another would be the addition of some races (Gnome) and classes.

Thanks.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 11:12 am 
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Splitting off Race from Class would be a major overhaul, IMO, and probably more trouble than it is worth.

Better to cook up new Classes as needed... Dwarf Cleric, Elf Thief, Halfling Assassin, Half-Elf, Half-Elf Wizard, etc....

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 12:21 am 
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GnomeBoy wrote:
Splitting off Race from Class would be a major overhaul, IMO, and probably more trouble than it is worth.


It wasn't, although I only used the four core classes with many races, with the possibility to get into elite orders via questing (like paladins). It's way easier than writing nine new full-blown classes.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:49 am 
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Melkor wrote:
Hi all,

I believe that for most of the people that gravitate towards the DCC RPG, one of the appeals of the game is that it is fairly simple and straightforward (freeing up the Judge and players to get on with gaming), and that in posing this question, quite a few responses to this topic could easily be assumed to be "I wouldn't change a thing, I love it exactly as it is."

Being fully aware of that consideration, I thought I would still ask: If you were going to create an "Advanced" version of the Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG, what would you add to the game?

I've been thinking on it a bit, but haven't come up with a comprehensive personal list as of yet, so I wanted to see what ideas other people might have. One caveat that I know I would want to keep is compatibility with the existing DCC game and modules, but that is about as far as I have gotten.

One thing the players in my gaming group have mentioned would be splitting race from class in following the tradition of AD&D. Another would be the addition of some races (Gnome) and classes.

Thanks.


Scrapping race as class is not a complicated task but it is a major overhaul of the flavour of the game and it robs humans of their 'special ability' that of being able to choose their class rather than being stuck with what they get which is their compensation for the special abilities of the demi-humans.

There are certainly tweaks that can and possibly ought to be added to the demi-human classes (Why can an Elf, a tree dwelling creature, not climb better than the average human for example?) and I expect the odd additional non-human could be considered, Gnomes, Halfies or whatever.

I have a small selection of general & adventure skills: riding, swimming, boating, climbing etc. which evreyone gets a D10 to attempt but which some get D10+2 or D20 or D20 (+1/level after 1st). Some backgrounds bump up certain skills, some classes bump them up further and there is a bit of player choice too. That helps achieve some of what you are after and their are a couple of tweak packages such as the Holy Warrior (Drop hit die, reduction in special combat skills, more limited weapon list etc in exchange lay hands and/or turn unholy), Elves can sacrifice a spell for an additional skill and so on.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:00 am 
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Melkor wrote:
If you were going to create an "Advanced" version of the Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG, what would you add to the game?
An awesome thread! I haven't put much thought into this, but here are some ideas off the top of my head.

1. Expanded class selection. Paladins, rangers, and so on.

2. Expanded number of levels. Not just adding on higher, but perhaps inserting some in between so that advancement happens in smaller chunks.

3. I'm not as interested in more races. but this is a good way to expand the character choices.

4. Some sort of skill system would make the game more advanced. I would be inclined to go with a shorter more useful list (a la 5E) rather than a long specific one (as in Pathfinder).

Of course, there are a number of options that I don't regularly play with anyway. (Mercurial Magic, for example.) Using those would help make the game more "advanced" for me. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:28 pm 
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More durable 0-level characters? 4hp plus Stamina mod as standard would be better than random. I know it's about wise use of resources, but 1hp can be a bit low.

The spells are perfect, imho.

Any more complexity and you're looking at another system, for things like skills or feats. Not a bad thing, but the change in tone is something to consider: are the games good because characters can be built that automatically survive them merely by powering through? Is that what DCC is about? Things to do vs building to survive.

I'll need to make it through a home game before I can think up more, but those are some of my thoughts.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:18 pm 
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fireinthedust wrote:
More durable 0-level characters? 4hp plus Stamina mod as standard would be better than random. I know it's about wise use of resources, but 1hp can be a bit low.

How about racial hit dice for 0-level characters? Or +1d/-1d penalty to the hit dice of some races on all levels.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:52 am 
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My difficulty with this thread is that part of the charm of DCC is the fact that it isn't AD&D and I can think of few changes in that direction that will add more to the game than they take away.

Advanced=complicated but not better and it will almost certainly mean the delicate balance of the game will be skewed with more time spent on rules and paperwork and less on gaming. From D&D through Runequest, Dragonquest and all the rest someone always writes and 'Advanced' version with rules for everything and it always wrecks more than it improves.

Sorry about the cynicism but there are already threads on this forum where someone has declared their house rule part of 'Advanced Dungeon Crawl' and it makes me wince every time. Now if this thread were called 'developing Dungeon Crawl Classics (While preserving it's core)' that would be a thread with a worthy aim :D


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:10 am 
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For me advanced doesn't mean more complexity, but more content.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:44 am 
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Thats why I put the caveat in my original post Weisenwolf. I know that the charm of DCC is its inherent simplicity, but I also agree with Ravenheart that more options doesn't have to mean more complexity, and even when it does, some people do enjoy that.

I think a lot of us that played OD&D, Basic, and AD&D actually played a mix of the first two with some of the latter added in - similar to the Labyrinth Lord Advanced Edition Companion. That being the case, I was hoping to just get some ideas on what people would add or want to see in the hopes that someday we will get a Goodman product that details some additional options.

Cheers.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:29 pm 
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Melkor wrote:
That being the case, I was hoping to just get some ideas on what people would add or want to see in the hopes that someday we will get a Goodman product that details some additional options.

I'm still not sure if I should use my original "elite class" approach for my next campaign, or rewrite some classes to DCC RPG from level 1 to 10. The latter obviously needs more work and I would gladly see what Goodman Games comes up with, but I'm afraid I wouldn't be satisfied with the result as in case of the Crawl! classes. Those aren't bad at all (quite the opposite), just different from what I would've wanted to see.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:24 am 
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Melkor wrote:
Thats why I put the caveat in my original post Weisenwolf. I know that the charm of DCC is its inherent simplicity, but I also agree with Ravenheart that more options doesn't have to mean more complexity, and even when it does, some people do enjoy that.

I think a lot of us that played OD&D, Basic, and AD&D actually played a mix of the first two with some of the latter added in - similar to the Labyrinth Lord Advanced Edition Companion. That being the case, I was hoping to just get some ideas on what people would add or want to see in the hopes that someday we will get a Goodman product that details some additional options.

Cheers.


Fair enough, I certainly ended up playing a version of D&D that had rules from all over the place, so I expect there is some scope

In that case I would break it up into a series of projects, for example there do not appear to be any rules for the creation of magic armour and various other items of magic and there are no rules to allow Dwarves to use rune magic to create wondrous things. So a worthy discussion on whether such a thing would add to the game and how it might be done may be a good idea.

I have my own take on weapons which is generally lifted from my D&D House rules and I guess that would qualify perhaps


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