The Kickstarter madness has me thinking about dice

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The Kickstarter madness has me thinking about dice

Post by Black Dougal » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:04 am

I really want to see sets of dice, including all of the Zocchi polyhedrons, in game stores. In order to give DCCRPG the support it needs new players have to be able to pick up the funky dice at the same time they pickup the book. (Besides, I don't own _nearly_ enough dice.)

In all seriousness, I see this as a big issue hindering adoption of the game. I have had a couple of conversations with people at my FLGS. One of the guys that works at the store told me point-blank that they cannot stock the Zocchi dice. They can't find a distributor for them. Also, one of my gamer friends (he is a blogger, podcaster, and freelance writer and editor in the industry) pointed this out as the biggest issue that he sees with the game. He used the example of Evil Hat's FATE system and the FUDGE dice. If those dice hadn't been readily available FATE probably wouldn't be nearly as popular a system as it is today? He convinced me that the dice need to be widely available to encourage new players. This will lower the barrier to entry.

But, wait. I am not just here to complain. I have a cunning plan! ;-)

I am looking at the awesomely successful Kickstarters which the third party publishers are running. This has me wondering if it makes sense for Goodman Games to setup a Kickstarter to fund the creation of official dice sets for DCCRPG? I have no idea how to structure the different funding levels, or what the stretch goals would be, but I think it would work.

I would definitely kick in a few bucks! That way, when I am talking up the game at my FLGS and someone asks me about the dice, I can just point out the tubes in the dice section at the front counter. I think that would be awesome.

What do you guys think?
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Re: The Kickstarter madness has me thinking about dice

Post by Colin » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:09 am

I'd go for it. It'd need:

d3 (ideally d6 numbered 1-3 twice)*
d4 (could be a d8 numbered 1-4 twice)*
d5 (ideally d10 numbered 1-10 twice)*
d6
d7 (ideally d14 numbered 1-7 twice)*
d8
d10
d%
d12
d14
d16
d20
d24
d30

* Using the standard dice shapes for these could potentially be cheaper and would certainly be more random in use.

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Re: The Kickstarter madness has me thinking about dice

Post by Raven_Crowking » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:20 am

Colin wrote:I'd go for it. It'd need:

d3 (ideally d6 numbered 1-3 twice)*
d4 (could be a d8 numbered 1-4 twice)*
d5 (ideally d10 numbered 1-10 twice)*
d6
d7 (ideally d14 numbered 1-7 twice)*
d8
d10
d%
d12
d14
d16
d20
d24
d30

* Using the standard dice shapes for these could potentially be cheaper and would certainly be more random in use.

Colin
To further this thought, a set should not all be in the same colour, so that your d10 and d5 are easy to distinguish.
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Re: The Kickstarter madness has me thinking about dice

Post by Galadrin » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:23 am

Has anyone just thought of 3D printing a full set of dice?

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Re: The Kickstarter madness has me thinking about dice

Post by Black Dougal » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:26 am

Colin wrote:I'd go for it. It'd need:

d3 (ideally d6 numbered 1-3 twice)*
d4 (could be a d8 numbered 1-4 twice)*
d5 (ideally d10 numbered 1-10 twice)*
d6
d7 (ideally d14 numbered 1-7 twice)*
d8
d10
d%
d12
d14
d16
d20
d24
d30

* Using the standard dice shapes for these could potentially be cheaper and would certainly be more random in use.

Colin
I like this suggestion.

I have some of the Gamescience Zocchi dice from Gamestation.net. They work well, but I have found that many people who I show them to have a hard time believing that d5 and d7 roll randomly. Also, I am not sure how problematic it would be to get those shapes licensed.

Doing as you suggest might make it easier to get a company like Chessex to produce the dice.
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Re: The Kickstarter madness has me thinking about dice

Post by Black Dougal » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:49 am

Galadrin wrote:Has anyone just thought of 3D printing a full set of dice?
This is an interesting idea, but I am not sure it is feasible it is. I understand that there are companies trying to produce household 3-D printers, but my understanding is that they are still quite expensive. Perhaps my Kickstarter idea could go towards the purchase of such machinery so that Goodman Games would then be able to produce their own dice sets and sell them. I have no idea what the costs would be, or if this would make the funding goals of a Kickstarter unreachable. If I were to hazard a guess; it would be that contracting a company, like Chessex or Koplow, to produce some runs of custom dice would be much cheaper than trying to spin-up a production facility for this type of venture.

It may be worth investigating.
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Re: The Kickstarter madness has me thinking about dice

Post by Vanguard » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:49 am

I agree that this is an issue. I tried to order them through The Compleat Strategist, one of the best gaming stores in the country and they told me that they could not get them at all. I went online, did the whole inking myself thing and had a blast, but I know not everyone is that ambitious.

I highly recommend GG do this. They could even offer them as a free promo item with the second printing of DCC RPG or sell them bundled with a module!
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Re: The Kickstarter madness has me thinking about dice

Post by Colin » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:06 am

Raven_Crowking wrote:
Colin wrote:I'd go for it. It'd need:
d3 (ideally d6 numbered 1-3 twice)*
d4 (could be a d8 numbered 1-4 twice)*
d5 (ideally d10 numbered 1-10 twice)*
d7 (ideally d14 numbered 1-7 twice)*
* Using the standard dice shapes for these could potentially be cheaper and would certainly be more random in use.
To further this thought, a set should not all be in the same colour, so that your d10 and d5 are easy to distinguish.
You could reverse the colour scheme, so if most of the dice were blue with red numbers, those particular dice could be red with blue numbers.
Black Dougal wrote:Also, I am not sure how problematic it would be to get those shapes licensed.
Doing as you suggest might make it easier to get a company like Chessex to produce the dice.
Absolutely. The Zocchi dice are specific to Gamescience, so if any other company or individual was to produce such dice, they'd have to license (unlikely) or go the other route suggested of using a d6 numbered twice, etc.
Galadrin wrote:Has anyone just thought of 3D printing a full set of dice?
It'd certainly be possible. Shapeways offer 3D printing in a huge variety of materials, but it's not particularly cheap. For example, this set of Steampunk dice costs $26.50 for the most basic material (plain white, uninked plastic). Obviously it'd be cheaper for a simpler set, but more expensive due to the number of dice involved. Might be worth asking someone like Wombat, Masterworks, Giles's Designs, or Tish Tosh Tesh (who do a set of d4, d6, d8, d10, d10 decader, d12, d20, d24, and d30 Gearpunk dice in white plastic for $17.71) if they'd design a set. I can't help but feel it'd be lot cheaper to go with someone like Chessex in the end though, especially for a larger, bulk order as supported by Kickstarter.

Colin

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Re: The Kickstarter madness has me thinking about dice

Post by Black Dougal » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:57 am

Colin wrote: It'd certainly be possible. Shapeways offer 3D printing in a huge variety of materials, but it's not particularly cheap. For example, this set of Steampunk dice costs $26.50 for the most basic material (plain white, uninked plastic). Obviously it'd be cheaper for a simpler set, but more expensive due to the number of dice involved. Might be worth asking someone like Wombat, Masterworks, Giles's Designs, or Tish Tosh Tesh (who do a set of d4, d6, d8, d10, d10 decader, d12, d20, d24, and d30 Gearpunk dice in white plastic for $17.71) if they'd design a set. I can't help but feel it'd be lot cheaper to go with someone like Chessex in the end though, especially for a larger, bulk order as supported by Kickstarter.

Colin
Nice. I didn't even realize how many companies are offering this service now. :-) (Shows just how in the loop I am.) This 3-D printing thing is sounding better and better. I would love to see how a bulk order from some of these compaines compares with quotes from some of the bigger dice companies.
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Re: The Kickstarter madness has me thinking about dice

Post by Ogrepuppy » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:02 pm

If a Kickstarter like this were to become available, I'd 150% contribute to it. In fact, I'd likely get a few sets, just so I have my own "exclusive DM dice" and the peons....err, players...can have their paltry little TPK soon-to-die dice.

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Re: The Kickstarter madness has me thinking about dice

Post by Black Dougal » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:09 pm

Colin wrote:
Raven_Crowking wrote:
Colin wrote:I'd go for it. It'd need:
d3 (ideally d6 numbered 1-3 twice)*
d4 (could be a d8 numbered 1-4 twice)*
d5 (ideally d10 numbered 1-10 twice)*
d7 (ideally d14 numbered 1-7 twice)*
* Using the standard dice shapes for these could potentially be cheaper and would certainly be more random in use.
To further this thought, a set should not all be in the same colour, so that your d10 and d5 are easy to distinguish.
You could reverse the colour scheme, so if most of the dice were blue with red numbers, those particular dice could be red with blue numbers.
I like this idea.

Or perhaps we could use a three color scheme where the pips on the dice are all the same color (e.g. red), but the plastic is two different colors (e.g. two different shades of blue, or a blue and a purple).

I would like to see a black-and-gold "heavy metal" theme for the dice; to go along with the "We're With the Band" ads that are showing up in the modules (and the foil cover on the limited edition). Using two colors, the regular dice could be gold with black pips while the Zocchi dice could be black with gold pips. Or, using three colors, the pips could be gold with a dark red for the regular dice and black for the Zocchi dice.
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Re: The Kickstarter madness has me thinking about dice

Post by Stainless » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:16 pm

Hang on. Doesn't Plato have copyright on some of those shapes?
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Re: The Kickstarter madness has me thinking about dice

Post by TheNobleDrake » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:25 pm

I would love to contribute to a project to get appropriate dice into the hands of the masses... as I know it can be very tricky, if not actually impossible (sorry for the international folks on that one) to get gamescience dice.

I had to have my FLGS set up an account specifically with... well I can't actually remember if it was Gamestation directly or someone else, but the point is that they had to set up a specific account outside their account with their distributors in order to be able to special order dice for me.

They now have a few Zocchi dice sitting in their individual die bins, but are also equipped to order whatever any locals might need... except for DCC books, for some reason... It's been a few weeks now that they have been waiting on their distributor to round up and send them copies to fill my order (so thank all the gods imaginable that I pre-ordered direct from Goodman Games or I'd probably still be waiting for that too).

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Re: The Kickstarter madness has me thinking about dice

Post by fuel » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:35 pm

This is a great idea! The poor availability of the dice is THE biggest hangup about this game. The dice need to be conveniently available for the consumer. I would love to see two sets of dice made. One red and blue and one black and gold. I think swapping the colors on the similar ones would be essential as well. For example, a D3 (a d6 with 1-3 twice) would be gold with black lettering while a D6 would be black with gold lettering.

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Re: The Kickstarter madness has me thinking about dice

Post by Colin » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:58 pm

I've been looking at Kevin Cook's website (he owns the biggest dice collection in the world, officially, as in Guinness World Record) and looking at most of the 3D-printed dice, quality can be highly variable. Luckily, it seems that the simpler the design, the better the 3D printing result, but it's one of those things that'd definitely have to be test-run before it was ever marketed out.

Again, all the more reason to use someone like Chessex or Crystal Caste. Crystal Caste might be particularly cool (cylindrical d14s, d16s, etc. would be a real departure from the norm, and make the "DCC Dice Set" really stand out) if only because of the glee in using a company that successfully sued Hasbro for ripping off their dice designs.

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Re: The Kickstarter madness has me thinking about dice

Post by Machpants » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:55 pm

I'd back the hell out of something like this, I would want them all in the same colour though. Dif colour numerals for d7/d14 for example. And not 'more random but not as nice to hold or roll' precision style either! Comfort over accuracy.
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Re: The Kickstarter madness has me thinking about dice

Post by Black Dougal » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:47 pm

Machpants wrote:I'd back the hell out of something like this, I would want them all in the same colour though. Dif colour numerals for d7/d14 for example. And not 'more random but not as nice to hold or roll' precision style either! Comfort over accuracy.
I think I would rather have two different colors of plastic, but I would be happy as long as there is some way to easily tell the difference between d5 and d10, etc.
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Re: The Kickstarter madness has me thinking about dice

Post by Stainless » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:49 am

Black dice with gold numbers. Awesome as you yanks would say. The only way to go with this game. We need someone with industry knowledge to step in here. Joseph?!
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Re: The Kickstarter madness has me thinking about dice

Post by GnomeBoy » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:41 am

Stainless wrote:Hang on. Doesn't Plato have copyright on some of those shapes?
Sadly, when copyright laws were re-jiggered last century, he did not renew his, and they have since lapsed into public domain...

On a related note, I'm confused as to how anyone can 'own' a geometric shape (Zocchi). Can anyone 'splain it to me?
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Re: The Kickstarter madness has me thinking about dice

Post by RevTurkey » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:39 am

Black Dice, Gold Numbers/Spots.

Oh yes!

All the weird shapes if I get a say :D
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Re: The Kickstarter madness has me thinking about dice

Post by Vanguard » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:58 am

GnomeBoy wrote:
Stainless wrote:Hang on. Doesn't Plato have copyright on some of those shapes?
Sadly, when copyright laws were re-jiggered last century, he did not renew his, and they have since lapsed into public domain...

On a related note, I'm confused as to how anyone can 'own' a geometric shape (Zocchi). Can anyone 'splain it to me?
It's conceptual, really. Even if the shape occurs naturally somewhere (and most do/can), if you're the one to invent/discover it you could copyright it if it's not something all that common.
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Re: The Kickstarter madness has me thinking about dice

Post by Ogrepuppy » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:02 pm

Vanguard wrote:It's conceptual, really. Even if the shape occurs naturally somewhere (and most do/can), if you're the one to invent/discover it you could copyright it if it's not something all that common.
I am TOTALLY copyrighting the letter M, then.

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Re: The Kickstarter madness has me thinking about dice

Post by Colin » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:15 am

Vanguard wrote:On a related note, I'm confused as to how anyone can 'own' a geometric shape (Zocchi). Can anyone 'splain it to me?
It's conceptual, really. Even if the shape occurs naturally somewhere (and most do/can), if you're the one to invent/discover it you could copyright it if it's not something all that common.
It's the specific use of said shape *as a dice* that's covered in most cases.

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Re: The Kickstarter madness has me thinking about dice

Post by GnomeBoy » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:19 am

Ogrepuppy wrote:
Vanguard wrote:It's conceptual, really. Even if the shape occurs naturally somewhere (and most do/can), if you're the one to invent/discover it you could copyright it if it's not something all that common.
I am TOTALLY copyrighting the letter M, then.
I already filed the papers for that on Friday. Plus, Z, E, purple, 27, aardvarks, and breathing in.

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Re: The Kickstarter madness has me thinking about dice

Post by Outsiders68 » Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:31 am

I have found a company that makes them but there expensive?

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