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 Post subject: What DCC Needs Is.....
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:25 pm 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

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....a MONSTER MANUAL!


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 Post subject: Re: What DCC Needs Is.....
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:38 pm 
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+1


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 Post subject: Re: What DCC Needs Is.....
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:34 am 
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One of the nice things about starting with a new set of rules and having a relatively simple, distilled structure is that EVERY encounter can be a new creature with a little different narrative description. You are not obligated to tell the adventurers what the name of the creature is. Maybe they encounter something similar to the first time and face it with confidence. Maybe they were thrashed soundly before and are paranoid and wary as can be.

Telling someone, "You see an orc," gives away all the mystery. Give a colorful description and they have no idea what they face. Much more interesting.

I think more adventures would be better use of limited time.


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 Post subject: Re: What DCC Needs Is.....
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:35 am 
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A campaign setting. It is the foundation that many popular rpgs build on...The One Ring, D&D, Warhammer, Call of Cthulhu, Dargon Age, Tunnels and Trolls, Traveller, Ars Magica and the list goes on. All have campaign settings that tailor to their own game. Like building a house. It needs a strong foundation and when it comes to rpgs their foundations are campaign worlds (IMHO).


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 Post subject: Re: What DCC Needs Is.....
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:56 am 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer
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fanditch wrote:
....a MONSTER MANUAL!


http://www.rpgnow.com/product/112841/Cr ... 6-Denizens

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 Post subject: Re: What DCC Needs Is.....
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:51 am 
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sniderman wrote:
fanditch wrote:
....a MONSTER MANUAL!


http://www.rpgnow.com/product/112841/Cr ... 6-Denizens


Also, the Random Esoteric Creature Generator is many folks' DCC MM.

Also also, there's that link in my signature, if you're looking for more beasties...

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Gnome Boy (a.k.a. "Jon") • DCC play-tester @ DDC 35, Feb 2011. • Beta DL 2111, 7:00 AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since 1977 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters - Holds the power to play gnomes at will!

Here Be DCC Monsters...

General Yoros, Warrior, Str 13, Agl 8 (10), Stm 17, Per 13, Int 11, Lck 8; Law, HP 39, AC 17, R+2, F+4, W+2, band/shld, warhammer, longsword, longbow, pitchfork

Han Dee, (Weaver) Neutral Thief, Str 10, Agi 13, Stm 11, Per 11, Int 15, Lck 14, AC 13 (Leather), HP 25, Luck Die d6, Backstab 3, Sneak Silently 10, Hide In Shadows 9, Pick Pocket 10, Climb Sheer 10, Pick Lock 9, Find Trap 9, Disable Trap 9, Forge Doc 10, Disguise 3, Read Lang 5, Handle Poison 3, Cast Scroll d14+2, birth augur (Born under the loom) +1 to all skill checks (including thief skills), Banepicks (auto pick lock/disable trap, but lose 1d3 random ability loss, if a 3 then 1 pt is perm)


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 Post subject: Re: What DCC Needs Is.....
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:20 am 
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A boxed set.
With all the dice.


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 Post subject: Re: What DCC Needs Is.....
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:04 am 
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Hard-Bitten Adventurer
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fanditch wrote:
....a MONSTER MANUAL!



illustrated by doug kovacs!

edit: in full color! because it would be pretty even if anti-ethical to the DCC ethos in some way (every adventure features new monsters).


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 Post subject: Re: What DCC Needs Is.....
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:42 am 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:07 am
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I also would like to see them re-release their campaign setting for DCC. In another quality hardback with a large folded map insert. OK...making an [i]invoke patron[i] check...


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 Post subject: Re: What DCC Needs Is.....
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:18 am 
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Ill-Fated Peasant

Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:23 am
Posts: 9
+1 on campaign setting

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 Post subject: Re: What DCC Needs Is.....
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:37 am 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 11:08 am
Posts: 38
...to be a bit more gender-neutral, and more thoughtful about sexy images, even cartoons. I would introduce my friends' children to DCC, except I know their parents might object to certain aspects. Pathfinder has done a very good job at offering both male and female paragons, and female characters in illustrations are not always scantily clad. This is a real issue which will constrain the popularity of DCC, at least in my social group.


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 Post subject: Re: What DCC Needs Is.....
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:41 pm 
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Location: The Rollings Hobbit Hills of Ohio
Exedor wrote:
...to be a bit more gender-neutral, and more thoughtful about sexy images, even cartoons. I would introduce my friends' children to DCC, except I know their parents might object to certain aspects. Pathfinder has done a very good job at offering both male and female paragons, and female characters in illustrations are not always scantily clad. This is a real issue which will constrain the popularity of DCC, at least in my social group.


In all politeness...hell no! Why do games and people need to be forced to be politically correct? If Pathfinder wants to play the gender bender, feminist cards...let them. We all do not need to agree. I get so tired :evil: of people saying others are wrong because they think they are correct. Play your own game, your rules and your way?


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 Post subject: Re: What DCC Needs Is.....
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:43 pm 
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i feel that exploatative and demeaning treatman of women in media is real problem and that is very unwise to try to construct it somwhere where there is none.

almost all covers for dcc (excluding people of the pit and easley cover) paint women as equal and active partners in adventuring. farrah is no way more exposed than hugh, for example.

i am father of a baby girl and would love for her to grow up killing orcs and summoning arioch and i am glad to see that dcc portrays girls doing this stuff just like, or even better (check out sea queen escapes!) then their male counterparts.


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 Post subject: Re: What DCC Needs Is.....
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:04 pm 
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Wild-Eyed Zealot

Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:38 am
Posts: 98
I have all the monster manuals I need in my original D&D stuff and a lot of the offshoots. Conversions aren't that tricky and, in fact I converted a few of my favorite Fiend Folio monsters into DCC for my adventure 'The Traveling Cave of Al-Hadim.'

No, IMO what DCC needs is more and more adventures. Now some of those adventures could contain a few new rules, my own adventure contains more detailed rules for Ego contests with magical swords and both it and the Frozen In Time adventure feature alternate occupation charts, but a dedicated book of rules? That enters splat territory and I'd rather leave that to WotC.

If you really want expansion material, you need look no further than Crawl (I use their Paladin and Ranger classes) or any number of other 3PP materials being produced for the game...


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 Post subject: Re: What DCC Needs Is.....
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:32 pm 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 11:08 am
Posts: 38
Let me put this in a different way. I totally understand your views on this. It's that the writing and artwork assumes a level of sophistication that is not for everyone. By no means does the game need to be changed. I'd just LOVE to give me friends' kids the DCC book, on Saturday, but I suspect their parents will turn the twisty mouth of skepticism towards the issues I brought up in my earlier post. I did not mean to be the scold. I like bikini plate-mail cartoons and would not have the main rulebook any other way.

My friends' kids are getting the Pathfinder Beginners Box instead.

Nor am I criticizing anyone who DOES feel DCC is appropriate for kids. I'd give it to my kids with no hesitation. We live in a world where people have a variety of views of what is appropriate.

It just so happens that these kids I am seeing Saturday are brothers the same age as my brother and I were when we discovered Moldvay Basic. We all know what RPG I want to give them. I'd love to show up with 2 copies of the DCC RPG rulebook. I've had it in my mind to introduce them to RPGs for 5 years. Last year I started explaining that their computer games were derivative of D&D. They kept asking where the screen was when you played this mysterious game. They've been asking their dad when I'm coming back with this game.

Now to what I meant to express regarding the rulebook, put more generally:

The rulebook assumes familiarity with RPGs. The presentation is sophisticated. The entire atmosphere of DCC RPG, the themes, the aspects that make it stand out among RPGs, might be confusing to a newcomer. It strikes me that people might put the rulebook down and just pick up something that is clearly aimed at new players. DCC needs a "beginners box" suitable for beginners and kids, and I think it would grow the player base. In my view, v4, Pathfinder, and Next have most of the "mindshare" of the FRPG world. I think DCC could have a more widespread appeal if something like this existed.


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 Post subject: Re: What DCC Needs Is.....
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:16 pm 
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Cold-Hearted Immortal
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Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:46 pm
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MrHemlocks wrote:
Exedor wrote:
...to be a bit more gender-neutral, and more thoughtful about sexy images, even cartoons. I would introduce my friends' children to DCC, except I know their parents might object to certain aspects. Pathfinder has done a very good job at offering both male and female paragons, and female characters in illustrations are not always scantily clad. This is a real issue which will constrain the popularity of DCC, at least in my social group.

In all politeness...hell no! Why do games and people need to be forced to be politically correct? If Pathfinder wants to play the gender bender, feminist cards...let them. We all do not need to agree. I get so tired :evil: of people saying others are wrong because they think they are correct. Play your own game, your rules and your way?


As you say, "We all do not need to agree". Neither do we need to have the same opinion. No need to jump down anyone's throat over it.

_________________
Gnome Boy (a.k.a. "Jon") • DCC play-tester @ DDC 35, Feb 2011. • Beta DL 2111, 7:00 AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since 1977 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters - Holds the power to play gnomes at will!

Here Be DCC Monsters...

General Yoros, Warrior, Str 13, Agl 8 (10), Stm 17, Per 13, Int 11, Lck 8; Law, HP 39, AC 17, R+2, F+4, W+2, band/shld, warhammer, longsword, longbow, pitchfork

Han Dee, (Weaver) Neutral Thief, Str 10, Agi 13, Stm 11, Per 11, Int 15, Lck 14, AC 13 (Leather), HP 25, Luck Die d6, Backstab 3, Sneak Silently 10, Hide In Shadows 9, Pick Pocket 10, Climb Sheer 10, Pick Lock 9, Find Trap 9, Disable Trap 9, Forge Doc 10, Disguise 3, Read Lang 5, Handle Poison 3, Cast Scroll d14+2, birth augur (Born under the loom) +1 to all skill checks (including thief skills), Banepicks (auto pick lock/disable trap, but lose 1d3 random ability loss, if a 3 then 1 pt is perm)


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 Post subject: Re: What DCC Needs Is.....
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:26 pm 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 11:08 am
Posts: 38
catseye yellow wrote:
i feel that exploatative and demeaning treatman of women in media is real problem and that is very unwise to try to construct it somwhere where there is none.

almost all covers for dcc (excluding people of the pit and easley cover) paint women as equal and active partners in adventuring. farrah is no way more exposed than hugh, for example.

i am father of a baby girl and would love for her to grow up killing orcs and summoning arioch and i am glad to see that dcc portrays girls doing this stuff just like, or even better (check out sea queen escapes!) then their male counterparts.


Following this reply I started browsing the DCC RPG rulebook. I think I'm being overly sensitive and cautious. The creators of the game were thoughtful about how women are depicted. I have not introduced anyone else's kids to RPGs and one has to consider all angles when giving a gift that has a HIGH chance of becoming an obsession. These boys are Minecraft fanatics and very literate for their ages.


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 Post subject: Re: What DCC Needs Is.....
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:40 pm 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 11:08 am
Posts: 38
Oddly enough MrHemlocks a post of yours is close to my view:

MrHemlocks wrote:
I realize that DCC core rules need to be reprinted but many of us have 4+ copies of the same rules...just different covers. There needs to be a change If going to make a box set for Pete's sake add something new to the table...like campaign setting.


I think there needs to be a change too, not to the original rulebook, but some follow-on publications, that will serve different purposes and grow the DCC RPG universe. I think both your idea and mine would be in great demand.


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 Post subject: Re: What DCC Needs Is.....
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:43 pm 
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Amen)


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 Post subject: Re: What DCC Needs Is.....
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:32 am 
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First, as to the Monster Manual for DCC, I'd like to see one. I'll bet it would be easy enough to do two things:
(1) Stat out some "classic" monsters from Tolkien and other literature like that.
(2) Go through old modules and use the best of those.

While the "each monster is unique" flavor appeals to some, having some go-to monsters would appeal to others.

Exedor wrote:
My friends' kids are getting the Pathfinder Beginners Box instead.

The rulebook assumes familiarity with RPGs. The presentation is sophisticated. The entire atmosphere of DCC RPG, the themes, the aspects that make it stand out among RPGs, might be confusing to a newcomer. It strikes me that people might put the rulebook down and just pick up something that is clearly aimed at new players. DCC needs a "beginners box" suitable for beginners and kids....
I agree that a "beginner's box" would be a nice thing for DCC, however...

I learned D&D in the 1970's when I was in middle school before the Holmes Basic D&D was invented. The rules we learned from are thought by many to be obscure and confusing, yet we had a lot of fun with them. The best way to learn how to play a RPG isn't by reading a beginner set, but instead by having someone teach you in person. The rules become more like a textbook, where you look up things when needed, instead of a guide that tells you how to roll dice. I taught my three children how to play RPGs and now am teaching a friend's two sons, and they have had a blast playing characters. (My friend's sons have played DCC and love it, by the way, although I'll confess that I don't use every rule in the book.)

My point is that DCC needs mentors as much as it needs a beginner's set. While I think that the Pathfinder basic set is by far one of the best starter sets I've ever seen, I don't like the Pathfinder RPG much and feel that giving a set like that would be counter to my goals as a game master. Why give them one game and teach them another? My philosophy is more of "fun over rules" and Pathfinder is the opposite.

Just one guy's opinion.

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DCC Minister of Propaganda; Deputized 6/8/11
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DCC RPG playtester 2011, C&C playtester 2003,T&T since 2003,
ADRP Since 1993, OD&D player since 1975

"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
-- Gary Gygax
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
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 Post subject: Re: What DCC Needs Is.....
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:18 am 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer
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Having taught DCC to my kids...and their friends...and a school-based club...it's pretty clear that DCC is a great first rpg for anyone, but that the text-based culture we grew up with is not the same as the visual/interactive culture they have grown up with.

What I mean is that, as 10 year olds, we could sort of figure out Gygax (or Moldvay or Holmes), but my own (very smart) kids would just be bored by the meandering a Dungeon Masters Guide and lack all patience for such things. And when my kids friends have been excited by DCC and their parents have followed up on that excitement by buying a 4e D&D boxed set, the kids say they can't really figure it out, or it "seems boring," even though they LOVE playing DCC at our house.

So! What we need is enthusiastic Judges and judges-in-training and an intro DCC boxed set that is not text-heavy but contains all you need to play (maybe tables on card stock sheets instead of bound into a book)! The Judges spreading the gospel of the game are more important than the latter, I think,

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 Post subject: Re: What DCC Needs Is.....
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:33 pm 
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Exedor wrote:
catseye yellow wrote:
i feel that exploatative and demeaning treatman of women in media is real problem and that is very unwise to try to construct it somwhere where there is none.

almost all covers for dcc (excluding people of the pit and easley cover) paint women as equal and active partners in adventuring. farrah is no way more exposed than hugh, for example.

i am father of a baby girl and would love for her to grow up killing orcs and summoning arioch and i am glad to see that dcc portrays girls doing this stuff just like, or even better (check out sea queen escapes!) then their male counterparts.


Following this reply I started browsing the DCC RPG rulebook. I think I'm being overly sensitive and cautious. The creators of the game were thoughtful about how women are depicted. I have not introduced anyone else's kids to RPGs and one has to consider all angles when giving a gift that has a HIGH chance of becoming an obsession. These boys are Minecraft fanatics and very literate for their ages.



you say obsession like it is something bad (picks a flea from the beard and eats it).


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 Post subject: Re: What DCC Needs Is.....
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:38 pm 
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Chaos-Summoning Sorcerer
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fanditch wrote:
I also would like to see them re-release their campaign setting for DCC. In another quality hardback with a large folded map insert.


This is all I feel is needed.

And yeah, the map is mandatory. :)


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 Post subject: Re: What DCC Needs Is.....
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:46 pm 
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Cold-Blooded Diabolist

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We REALLY, really need a fully detailed pantheon of gods with all the trimmings, including spells, beliefs, divine aid, sins and sacrifices, rituals, holy symbols, etc.

I'd love to see this done in a reprint of the DCC campaign setting.


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 Post subject: Re: What DCC Needs Is.....
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:28 pm 
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Not sure what still is the hold up for a DCC campaign setting. Been two years now and... Maybe have the campaign centered around the village of Hirot and include the surrounding areas. The village is done already, in Doom of the Savage Kings, along with some of places that are near the village.

The campaign setting can be made using a cardboard folio containing a few maps and a 32+page gazetteer like was used with The World of Greyhawk))) The campaign setting does not need to be as detailed or as big as Greyhawk, but DCC really needs a campaign setting to call its own...


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