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 Post subject: Re: Zocchi Dice Buyer's Guide
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 6:38 am 
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Joe Mac wrote:
reverenddak wrote:
Getting a d14 that's number 1-7 twice.


Who's making that for you? I have lots of d6, d8, and d10s numbered half-range twice, but I haven't found a company to make me a 14-sided 'd7' yet. Hook me up! : )


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 Post subject: Re: Zocchi Dice Buyer's Guide
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:34 pm 
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yell0w_lantern wrote:
Koplow
Troll and Toad carries them.


Yup, http://www.trollandtoad.com/p334432.html They're over-sized. I might get a couple as loaners and a Fudge dice set.

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 Post subject: Re: Zocchi Dice Buyer's Guide
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 4:49 pm 
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Thanks guys -- that's the first regular production 14-sided 'd7' I've seen.


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 Post subject: Re: Zocchi Dice Buyer's Guide
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:15 pm 
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Just wanted to share my two pence on Gamescience dice.

While I support Mr. Zocchi's assertion that unpolished dice are more 'precise', I think it's shite that he charges so much more than his competitors for what amounts to a less labour and resource-intensive manufacture (i.e. no painting, no tumbling). If Chessex released a line of untumbled, unpainted dice, would they charge more for them?

I also take issue with Mr. Zocchi's claim that his dice are cast from 'higher quality plastics' than his competitors. I'm no expert in plastics, but I tend to judge a die by how dense, heavy, and 'stone-like' it feels. Gamescience dice are light-weight and seem to be made from a semi-soft plastic. Shake a few Gamescience dice in your hand and they don't make quite the same clatter as other more 'solid-feeling' dice. Zocchi claims his competitors' dice crumble apart; for the record, I have only had one die crumble apart in all my 25 years of gaming. It was a D8 from an original OD&D Expert Set, and I think Mr. Z. made those.

I suppose Zocchi deserves some credit for manufacturing in the USA. But then I'm not American, so not particularly bothered whether my dice are manufactured by pathetically under-paid Chinese or pathetically under-paid Americans. (If anything, my sympathies are with the Chinese.)

I do think it would be a nice gesture and a more reasonable value if Gamescience included a crayon and a small piece of modelling sandpaper with each set of dice.


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 Post subject: Re: Zocchi Dice Buyer's Guide
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:43 pm 
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Purely subjective of course, but I love my Gamescience dice. It is pretty much all I roll anymore and have even separated them from the others I have. I've never sat down to do a dice roll off with them or anything, but they do tend to stay on the table better due to their sharper edges.

I didn't feel like I paid that much more for mine, though I did do the inking myself.


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 Post subject: Re: Zocchi Dice Buyer's Guide
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:22 am 
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tithian wrote:
Just wanted to share my two pence on Gamescience dice.

While I support Mr. Zocchi's assertion that unpolished dice are more 'precise', I think it's shite that he charges so much more than his competitors for what amounts to a less labour and resource-intensive manufacture (i.e. no painting, no tumbling). If Chessex released a line of untumbled, unpainted dice, would they charge more for them?

I also take issue with Mr. Zocchi's claim that his dice are cast from 'higher quality plastics' than his competitors. I'm no expert in plastics, but I tend to judge a die by how dense, heavy, and 'stone-like' it feels. Gamescience dice are light-weight and seem to be made from a semi-soft plastic. Shake a few Gamescience dice in your hand and they don't make quite the same clatter as other more 'solid-feeling' dice. Zocchi claims his competitors' dice crumble apart; for the record, I have only had one die crumble apart in all my 25 years of gaming. It was a D8 from an original OD&D Expert Set, and I think Mr. Z. made those.

I suppose Zocchi deserves some credit for manufacturing in the USA. But then I'm not American, so not particularly bothered whether my dice are manufactured by pathetically under-paid Chinese or pathetically under-paid Americans. (If anything, my sympathies are with the Chinese.)

I do think it would be a nice gesture and a more reasonable value if Gamescience included a crayon and a small piece of modelling sandpaper with each set of dice.


I don't know where you're buying your dice from, but getting a set of unlinked Zocchi are actually about the same price as other 7-12 piece sets. You could get a set of precision and a set of just the Zocchi numbers for about $15.

That being said, including a piece of paper to sand off the bumps is a good idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Zocchi Dice Buyer's Guide
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:49 am 
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I have a bunch of Gamescience dice from the early 80's, and they have barely a chip or scratch. They've lost some of its luster, but they're still solid. While I have a d30 from The Armory, and it has all kinds of chips. It was bought around the same time, and didn't even really live in my dice bag until DCC RPG. Gamescience dice are my favorite, hands down. And have been, way before youtube and such.

That being said, I think it it's easier with a little modeling file to get those burrs.

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 Post subject: Re: Zocchi Dice Buyer's Guide
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:10 pm 
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For the Canadians in the audience:
I've done quite a bit of research, and so far your best bet for dice is troll and toad.
Unless you can get lucky on ebay. No Major Canadian web stores stock them at all.

Anyone else find something different?


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 Post subject: Re: Zocchi Dice Buyer's Guide
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:38 pm 
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ShaggyCan wrote:
For the Canadians in the audience:
I've done quite a bit of research, and so far your best bet for dice is troll and toad.
Unless you can get lucky on ebay. No Major Canadian web stores stock them at all.


I am not Canadian, but I went with Troll and Toad to get my funky dice as well. I put some pics of them up (along with the book I ordered from there) on my blog:

http://irontavern.com/2012/06/15/i-have ... hardcover/

I will worry about a matched set later - probably at Gen Con.


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 Post subject: Re: Zocchi Dice Buyer's Guide
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:51 pm 
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I am also keeping an eye on the shapeways site. This can be a place, not to get the cheapest dice, but probably the most unique. I am starting to see d24s and some of the rest of the zocchi set on there. usually cheaper to buy the dice by the set rather than individually. As I said, more expensive than mass produced dice, but maybe worth it and some you can get in metal rather than plastics.


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 Post subject: Re: Zocchi Dice Buyer's Guide
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:40 pm 
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I apologize for coming in late and somewhat incredulous to this situation as I just received my copy of the book and did not partake of the beta.

You mean to tell me Goodman is not offering an official easy to purchase full set of the dice needed to play the game they just made? No one noticed this during the beta?

This makes the game less exciting for me and I can't imagine trying to sell it to a player in the game store, "Here is your new car but we don't have the special tires you need to drive it, good luck on finding them elsewhere"

:?: :?: :?: :?: :?:


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 Post subject: Re: Zocchi Dice Buyer's Guide
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:46 pm 
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maraudermac wrote:
I apologize for coming in late and somewhat incredulous to this situation as I just received my copy of the book and did not partake of the beta.

You mean to tell me Goodman is not offering an official easy to purchase full set of the dice needed to play the game they just made? No one noticed this during the beta?

This makes the game less exciting for me and I can't imagine trying to sell it to a player in the game store, "Here is your new car but we don't have the special tires you need to drive it, good luck on finding them elsewhere"

:?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

There aren't many rpg publishers who sell dice with their games. At least here you get a guide where can you get them or how can you substitute them. Fingers crossed for official GG dice set appearing, but it's not that easy to solve it.

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 Post subject: Re: Zocchi Dice Buyer's Guide
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:32 am 
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maraudermac wrote:
I apologize for coming in late and somewhat incredulous to this situation as I just received my copy of the book and did not partake of the beta.

You mean to tell me Goodman is not offering an official easy to purchase full set of the dice needed to play the game they just made? No one noticed this during the beta?

This makes the game less exciting for me and I can't imagine trying to sell it to a player in the game store, "Here is your new car but we don't have the special tires you need to drive it, good luck on finding them elsewhere"

:?: :?: :?: :?: :?:


I bought the book knowing I would have to buy funky new dice (or use the alternative rules for non Zocchi dice). The use of funky dice did not put me off. DCC RPG is jam packed with all sorts of old school goodness and is brilliant value. 488 pages for $40 is a bargain. I was able to find the dice easily online. It was not a hassle to order from a European retailer.


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 Post subject: Re: Zocchi Dice Buyer's Guide
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:57 am 
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maraudermac wrote:
You mean to tell me Goodman is not offering an official easy to purchase full set of the dice needed to play the game they just made? No one noticed this during the beta?


It makes me wonder how long after Vampire: the Masquerade was released in 1991 that pre-packed sets of 10 matching d10 started showing up.

I know there were plenty of old-school D&D boxes that came with chits, not dice.

No one has ever had the dice they needed ready to buy (and always from a different company, also) on the first day their RPG is for sale without also using only the dice sets that came before them.


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 Post subject: Re: Zocchi Dice Buyer's Guide
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:53 am 
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maraudermac wrote:
You mean to tell me Goodman is not offering an official easy to purchase full set of the dice needed to play the game they just made? No one noticed this during the beta?

This makes the game less exciting for me and I can't imagine trying to sell it to a player in the game store, "Here is your new car but we don't have the special tires you need to drive it, good luck on finding them elsewhere"


I really don't see it a a big deal. An easy to order set of dice would be nice, but it is hardly a deal breaker. My son and I played the first session using the alternate rolling guidelines in the book to get by. Worked fine, we had a blast. Since then I pieced together a set of "funky" dice from Troll and Toad using Koplow dice. It isn't a matched set, but it was easy enough to do.


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 Post subject: Re: Zocchi Dice Buyer's Guide
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:39 am 
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maraudermac wrote:
You mean to tell me Goodman is not offering an official easy to purchase full set of the dice needed to play the game they just made? No one noticed this during the beta?
What? You need special dice? Why was I not told of this before? :lol:

Seriously, the word "needed" is so overused. We playtested for months before I ever found a full set of Gamescience dice. If you really "needed" them to play the game, they would probably have been provided somehow.

As has been mentioned repeatedly on the boards, you don't "need" anything beyond your traditional polyhedral dice set to play DCC. For every other dice type you can "fake it" just fine.
d3 = d6 divided by two
d4 = standard
d5 = d6 re-roll 6's -or- d10 divided by two
d6 = standard
d7 = d8 re-roll 8's
d8 = standard
d10 = standard (I'm old and remember when it wasn't)
d12 = standard
d14 = same as d7 but with a control die (high is +7)
d16 = d8 with a control die (high is +8)
d20 = standard
d24 = d12 with a control die (high is +12)
d30 = d10 with a control die (middle is +10, high is +20)

Someone pointed out that you can even play DCC with only 3 dice total: d8, d10, and d12. :shock:
d3 = d12 divided by four
d4 = d8 divided by two -or- d12 divided by three
d5 = d10 divided by two
d6 = d12 divided by two
d7 = d8 re-roll 8's
d8 = standard
d10 = standard (I'm old and remember when it wasn't)
d12 = standard

d14 = same as d7 but with a control die (high is +7)
d16 = d8 with an control die (high is +8)
d20 = d10 with a control die (high is +10)
d24 = d12 with a control die (high is +12)
d30 = d10 with a control die (middle is +10, high is +20)

maraudermac wrote:
This makes the game less exciting for me and I can't imagine trying to sell it to a player in the game store, "Here is your new car but we don't have the special tires you need to drive it, good luck on finding them elsewhere"
Again that word "need."

Did you read the rulebook yet? I find that RPGs are either fun or not based on the rules and the group that I play with. I can't ever remember buying or not buying a game totally based on dice choice.

Colonial Gothic uses all d12 dice because the author had a bunch and never got to use them.

OD&D used d6's mostly in 1974 because most folks had them, but some places needed other funky dice. We used the "chits in a cup" method until we could mail-order a set of cruddy dice from TSR. They didn't come with the game, either. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Zocchi Dice Buyer's Guide
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:05 am 
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finarvyn wrote:
Someone pointed out that you can even play DCC with only 3 dice total: d8, d10, and d12. :shock:
...and I have been thinking about ordering a set of 3 custom dice with multiple numbers on each face and judicious application of plus signs to be my complete DCC travel-size dice set too.

My only concern other than the price/minimum pieces per order would be having to use larger scale dice just to fit all the information on each side.


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 Post subject: Re: Zocchi Dice Buyer's Guide
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:01 am 
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Yeah, I don’t get it. I had no problem finding dice. Heck, if you already have a set of standard dnd dice, all you need is a Zocchi Pack, a d7 and a d30. The only issue is finding the best deal. I had analysis paralysis the other day trying to put together a second set for demo use. Too many options. And the toss up between two ugly d7s. A couple of us matched the d7 with a set of d6s.

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 Post subject: Re: Zocchi Dice Buyer's Guide
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:18 am 
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reverenddak wrote:
Yeah, I don’t get it. I had no problem finding dice. Heck, if you already have a set of standard dnd dice, all you need is a Zocchi Pack, a d7 and a d30. The only issue is finding the best deal. I had analysis paralysis the other day trying to put together a second set for demo use. Too many options. And the toss up between two ugly d7s. A couple of us matched the d7 with a set of d6s.


You guys are lucky in the US/Canada. I live in The Netherlands & my only option is ordering from the UK or US via the internet. I've made 2 orders now because some of the first lot of funky dice were too big for my tastes. one of the benefits of local stores is that you can try before you buy. The other is less expense for international postage.


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 Post subject: Re: Zocchi Dice Buyer's Guide
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:55 am 
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maraudermac wrote:
I apologize for coming in late and somewhat incredulous to this situation as I just received my copy of the book and did not partake of the beta.

You mean to tell me Goodman is not offering an official easy to purchase full set of the dice needed to play the game they just made? No one noticed this during the beta?

This makes the game less exciting for me and I can't imagine trying to sell it to a player in the game store, "Here is your new car but we don't have the special tires you need to drive it, good luck on finding them elsewhere"

:?: :?: :?: :?: :?:


I think you're being pretty hyperbolic. You were not born with the "normal" dice hanging off your umbilical cord. At some point, you bought books for a game telling you that you needed these "weird" dice to play. I'm guessing that didn't ruin the experience for you.

You know how you sell it a player in the game store? Run a session, and provide the dice. The cost of the book plus just a Zocchi pack is going to run you $50. That's far, far less than the vast majority of games on the market. If your players are more math-minded, you can easily run DCC RPG without owning any of the Zocchi dice.

This seems to be one of the more common complaints about DCC RPG. I thought gamers liked having an unreasonable amount of dice. What's a few more?

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 Post subject: Re: Zocchi Dice Buyer's Guide
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:23 am 
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Marauder,

Welcome to the forums! I'm sorry the funky dice were a surprise and disappointment, but fortunately you won't see a lot of use in your first several sessions. (I think a 0-level funnel can be run completely funky-free, but I'd have to check to be sure.)

Faced with the same problem I'd pop over the Amazon and do a game science search. Dice sets should be readily available. Run a couple sessions of the funnel in between now and the delivery and you should be in good shape.

Hope that helps!

//H

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 Post subject: Re: Zocchi Dice Buyer's Guide
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:42 am 
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Harley Stroh wrote:
Marauder,

Welcome to the forums! I'm sorry the funky dice were a surprise and disappointment, but fortunately you won't see a lot of use in your first several sessions. (I think a 0-level funnel can be run completely funky-free, but I'd have to check to be sure.)

Faced with the same problem I'd pop over the Amazon and do a game science search. Dice sets should be readily available. Run a couple sessions of the funnel in between now and the delivery and you should be in good shape.

Hope that helps!

//H


He has to have a d30 and d24 on hand for character creation. As far as actual play goes, no weird dice are necessary.

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 Post subject: Re: Zocchi Dice Buyer's Guide
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:45 am 
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Vanguard wrote:
He has to have a d30 and d24 on hand for character creation. As far as actual play goes, no weird dice are necessary.


Good catch. I've been leaning on http://purplesorcerer.com/create.htm way too much. :twisted:

//H

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 Post subject: Re: Zocchi Dice Buyer's Guide
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:47 pm 
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finarvyn wrote:
Someone pointed out that you can even play DCC with only 3 dice total: d8, d10, and d12. :shock:


First, I'd like to say that I'm really happy to see this thread and the music thread still chugging along and helping people out (from since before the release of the game!). Both threads I started and then had basically no further input into. :D

Second, you don't even need a control die. Use the d8, d10 and d12 described above, and if the physical die is pointing away from the player, add +7, +8, +10 or +12 as needed. For example, the face of the d10 is the shape of an arrow. If this is pointing more towards the player than away from him, use the die without any further bonus. If it is pointing a line perfectly perpendicular, then I'm impressed (sorta like balancing a flipped coin on its side).


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 Post subject: Re: Zocchi Dice Buyer's Guide
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:55 pm 
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Galadrin wrote:
Second, you don't even need a control die. Use the d8, d10 and d12 described above, and if the physical die is pointing away from the player, add +7, +8, +10 or +12 as needed. For example, the face of the d10 is the shape of an arrow. If this is pointing more towards the player than away from him, use the die without any further bonus. If it is pointing a line perfectly perpendicular, then I'm impressed (sorta like balancing a flipped coin on its side).

That's pretty creative! Cool to see my smarmy counterpoint to "I need so many dice now" provoking thought in folks.

You happen to have a 3-stage d10 control replacement to get it working as a d30 without adding another die to the roll?


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