Just reading through the rules and I am loving the DCC RPG

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Black Dougal
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Re: Just reading through the rules and I am loving the DCC R

Post by Black Dougal » Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:49 pm

jmucchiello wrote:
dkeester wrote:I am not sure if it counts as a houserule or not.
Technically, it is a house rule. Elves, Halflings, and Dwarves have no infravision until after they have enough XP to reach level 1. Likewise, Dwarves and Halflings probably slow down to 20 feet per round when they attain level 1. Although this is hard to be sure about since it is unknown exactly how fast level 0 characters move. Same applies to the Dwarves and Halflings height. Do they shrink or do the other "classes" grow? It is not spelled out in the book. 0-level Elves can sleep on iron beds without pain. But gain one XP and it becomes poisonous to them.
This is why I am hoping for "not a houserule" in the final version of the game. :) I know Joseph is trying for simple and easy character creation, but I think the racial features need to apply at 0-level.
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Re: Just reading through the rules and I am loving the DCC R

Post by abk108 » Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:10 am

Hey... ok, some of us like race as class, some don't... but i think we "might" want to debate how to houserule that properly... this is my idea:
Demihumans get their racial features (infravision, secret-door sense, gold sense) at level 0 and they keep it as they gain levels of course. If the character is an elf but really wants to be a thief or a cleric, I suggest modifying the XP tables of that character: to gain a level, add to the required XP for the race-class, HALF the required XP for the class he chose.
(Eg: a dwarf needs 1000 XP to get to lvl 1. A cleric needs 1100 XP. If you're playing a dwarf cleric, you gain 1st level at 1000+550 XP.)

This represents the idea that most demihumans follow their racial path because it's easier for them to "embrace their roots" than to try and be as adaptive as humans.

how does all that sound?
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Re: Just reading through the rules and I am loving the DCC R

Post by jmucchiello » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:16 am

dkeester wrote:
jmucchiello wrote:
dkeester wrote:I am not sure if it counts as a houserule or not.
Technically, it is a house rule. Elves, Halflings, and Dwarves have no infravision until after they have enough XP to reach level 1. Likewise, Dwarves and Halflings probably slow down to 20 feet per round when they attain level 1. Although this is hard to be sure about since it is unknown exactly how fast level 0 characters move. Same applies to the Dwarves and Halflings height. Do they shrink or do the other "classes" grow? It is not spelled out in the book. 0-level Elves can sleep on iron beds without pain. But gain one XP and it becomes poisonous to them.
This is why I am hoping for "not a houserule" in the final version of the game. :) I know Joseph is trying for simple and easy character creation, but I think the racial features need to apply at 0-level.
I finally figured out what to call this: Race as Race. Just because DCCRPG uses Race as Class does not prevent DCCRPG from ALSO using Race as Race. The Race as Race section of the rulebook would explain the difference between 0-level humans, 0-level elves, 0-level dwarves and 0-level halflings. Answers to questions like "What is the movement rate of a 0-level human?" would be answered in the section of the rulebook.

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Re: Just reading through the rules and I am loving the DCC R

Post by abk108 » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:27 am

jmucchiello wrote: I finally figured out what to call this: Race as Race. Just because DCCRPG uses Race as Class does not prevent DCCRPG from ALSO using Race as Race. The Race as Race section of the rulebook would explain the difference between 0-level humans, 0-level elves, 0-level dwarves and 0-level halflings. Answers to questions like "What is the movement rate of a 0-level human?" would be answered in the section of the rulebook.
Would there be in that section info on dwarven clerics, thieves and wizards (etc)??
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Re: Just reading through the rules and I am loving the DCC R

Post by talmor » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:34 am

abk108 wrote: Would there be in that section info on dwarven clerics, thieves and wizards (etc)??
Not in the base book. I believe they're leaving them out for 3PP or the players to houserule for their own game.

So, the "racial classes" are a houserule waiting to happen. The key is, you'd want to make a Dwarven Wizard fundamentally different than a Human one. Not just "a wizard with dwarven bonuses" but a different enough class that the two only peripherally overlap.

I have a couple of ideas for the racial classes, but I want to get some solid playing under my belt before I start coming up with homebrew classes. In any case, I want the Racial Classes to be different and, ultimately, weaker than the normal/Human classes. A Human wizard should be the more versatile and powerful of all the magic users--a Dwarf might be better at crafting items, or an elf at summoning spirits and divination, but the Human should be better than them in general.

I don't want another party full of elves or full of dwarves--unless, of course, I'm specifically running an "all dwarf game."

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Re: Just reading through the rules and I am loving the DCC R

Post by reverenddak » Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:34 am

Dragon Age does an interesting thing with races. It uses them strictly as a background, with restrictions on Classes.

I think it would be a good idea to expand the Starting Occupations with a larger list and a bit more detailed information, with some sort of Ability or Racial Bonus. Here are a couple examples (using the existing lists):

Code: Select all

01 Alchemist -- Trained Weapon: Staff; Trade Goods: Oil, 1 flask; Bonus: Int +1, Wis +1
...
18-21 Dwarven blacksmith -- Trained Weapon: Hammer (as club); Trade Goods: Mithril, 1oz; Bonus: Str +1, Infravision
...
28-31 Elven artisan -- Trained Weapon: Staff; Trade Goods: Clay, 1lb.; Bonus: Per +1, Infravision
...

So far my play-tests, the characters really play up on the Occupations, since that's all they really have to go on. This should be expanded upon.

With this in mind if they "really really" want to play a former Elven Forester turn Fighter, let them. If the Occupations are expanded, they get to keep their Occupational Bonuses. If they choose the Elf class they get the additional Racial Abilites (and vulnerabilities; the Iron allergy can easily attribute to the Elven Classes ability to use weapons and magic.)

Otherwise let them pick one Racial Ability, or two if they take a penalty (Slow for Dwarves, Iron vulnerability for Elves.) But you might need to give humans some sort of bonus, obviously related to their occupation, i.e. background. This is probably the easiest solution.

I'm not a fan of the Tolkienesque/D&D races, so I'm probably re-skinning them in my Home campaign anyway. They're going to become exotic human cultures instead.
Last edited by reverenddak on Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Just reading through the rules and I am loving the DCC R

Post by Black Dougal » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:20 pm

abk108 wrote:Hey... ok, some of us like race as class, some don't... but i think we "might" want to debate how to houserule that properly... this is my idea:
Demihumans get their racial features (infravision, secret-door sense, gold sense) at level 0 and they keep it as they gain levels of course. If the character is an elf but really wants to be a thief or a cleric, I suggest modifying the XP tables of that character: to gain a level, add to the required XP for the race-class, HALF the required XP for the class he chose.
(Eg: a dwarf needs 1000 XP to get to lvl 1. A cleric needs 1100 XP. If you're playing a dwarf cleric, you gain 1st level at 1000+550 XP.)

This represents the idea that most demihumans follow their racial path because it's easier for them to "embrace their roots" than to try and be as adaptive as humans.

how does all that sound?
This sounds like a workable solution to me. It needs some actual play, but it is at least a good start.
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Re: Just reading through the rules and I am loving the DCC R

Post by Black Dougal » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:22 pm

jmucchiello wrote: I finally figured out what to call this: Race as Race. Just because DCCRPG uses Race as Class does not prevent DCCRPG from ALSO using Race as Race. The Race as Race section of the rulebook would explain the difference between 0-level humans, 0-level elves, 0-level dwarves and 0-level halflings. Answers to questions like "What is the movement rate of a 0-level human?" would be answered in the section of the rulebook.
This would be a good addition, and it shouldn't take more than a few pages to explain.
"The Black Dougal" (formerly known as dkeester) -- DCCRPG Fan Boy since 2010
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Re: Just reading through the rules and I am loving the DCC R

Post by reverenddak » Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:35 pm

dkeester wrote:
jmucchiello wrote: I finally figured out what to call this: Race as Race. Just because DCCRPG uses Race as Class does not prevent DCCRPG from ALSO using Race as Race. The Race as Race section of the rulebook would explain the difference between 0-level humans, 0-level elves, 0-level dwarves and 0-level halflings. Answers to questions like "What is the movement rate of a 0-level human?" would be answered in the section of the rulebook.
This would be a good addition, and it shouldn't take more than a few pages to explain.
It would take an additional page, or two, to just expand the Occupations with all these details (as I noted above.) It would totally be worth it, considering how important 0-level characters are.
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Re: Just reading through the rules and I am loving the DCC R

Post by jmucchiello » Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:22 am

abk108 wrote:
jmucchiello wrote: I finally figured out what to call this: Race as Race. Just because DCCRPG uses Race as Class does not prevent DCCRPG from ALSO using Race as Race. The Race as Race section of the rulebook would explain the difference between 0-level humans, 0-level elves, 0-level dwarves and 0-level halflings. Answers to questions like "What is the movement rate of a 0-level human?" would be answered in the section of the rulebook.
Would there be in that section info on dwarven clerics, thieves and wizards (etc)??
Not exactly. It would fix the hole in the rules caused by 0-level elves "coming out of the closet" at first level and gaining infravision and immunity to sleep.

As someone else suggested, moving the occupation rules to this new section and it should just be two pages right after the ability scores section.

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