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 Post subject: occupation table and race
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:20 am 
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Ill-Fated Peasant

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I'm kind of struggling with how to explain the occupation roll/chart and race/class interaction to my players. Basically, some of the occupations seem to pick race at zero level, so does that mean those character don't get a class choice at 1st level?

I'm guessing I'll let the players that want to play demi-humans reroll anything that doesn't make sense, and let players that want to play humans reroll demi-human results.

Anyone else have thoughts on the matter?


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 Post subject: Re: occupation table and race
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:32 pm 
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The key is that all of character generation is supposed to be random, so whether they get to be human or not is part of the random process. And no, they don't really get to choose at 1st level.

On the other hand, they call them "house" rules because in your own home you get to ignore what you like. If your players really want to play a certain type of character, nothing stops you from letting them do it. I'd suggest letting them try random ones first, however, because they might try random and like it, but once they get to pick they won't want to try random later.

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 Post subject: Re: occupation table and race
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:33 pm 
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Halafax wrote:
...some of the occupations seem to pick race at zero level, so does that mean those character don't get a class choice at 1st level?

finarvyn wrote:
...no, they don't really get to choose at 1st level.

Wait -- they do, don't they?

If your Level-Zero character is a Dwarf and he leveling up to 1st Level, he can choose the Dwarf or the non-racial Classes, yeah? He just can't pick Elf or Halfling. Similarly for Elves and Halflings, I think.

But yes, the racial component is supposed to be random at Level Zero, just like just about everything else at that level.

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Gnome Boy (a.k.a. "Jon") • DCC play-tester @ DDC 35, Feb 2011. • Beta DL 2111, 7:00 AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since 1977 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters - Holds the power to play gnomes at will!

Here Be DCC Monsters...

General Yoros, Warrior, Str 13, Agl 8 (10), Stm 17, Per 13, Int 11, Lck 8; Law, HP 39, AC 17, R+2, F+4, W+2, band/shld, warhammer, longsword, longbow, pitchfork

Han Dee, (Weaver) Neutral Thief, Str 10, Agi 13, Stm 11, Per 11, Int 15, Lck 14, AC 13 (Leather), HP 25, Luck Die d6, Backstab 3, Sneak Silently 10, Hide In Shadows 9, Pick Pocket 10, Climb Sheer 10, Pick Lock 9, Find Trap 9, Disable Trap 9, Forge Doc 10, Disguise 3, Read Lang 5, Handle Poison 3, Cast Scroll d14+2, birth augur (Born under the loom) +1 to all skill checks (including thief skills), Banepicks (auto pick lock/disable trap, but lose 1d3 random ability loss, if a 3 then 1 pt is perm)


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 Post subject: Re: occupation table and race
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:29 pm 
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Chaos-Summoning Sorcerer

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:28 am
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GnomeBoy wrote:
If your Level-Zero character is a Dwarf and he leveling up to 1st Level, he can choose the Dwarf or the non-racial Classes, yeah? He just can't pick Elf or Halfling. Similarly for Elves and Halflings, I think.

Not according to the FAQ. (Yeah, I used my FAQ.)


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 Post subject: Re: occupation table and race
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:45 pm 
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GnomeBoy wrote:
Halafax wrote:
If your Level-Zero character is a Dwarf and he leveling up to 1st Level, he can choose the Dwarf or the non-racial Classes, yeah? He just can't pick Elf or Halfling. Similarly for Elves and Halflings, I think.


I think it's been established elsewhere that if you roll any of the dwarf professions, and you survive to 1st level, your class is Dwarf. You can't be a dwarf wizard or what have you.

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 Post subject: Re: occupation table and race
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:59 pm 
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Hunh. Okay. Must've been established comparatively recently, and I didn't catch it.

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Gnome Boy (a.k.a. "Jon") • DCC play-tester @ DDC 35, Feb 2011. • Beta DL 2111, 7:00 AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since 1977 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters - Holds the power to play gnomes at will!

Here Be DCC Monsters...

General Yoros, Warrior, Str 13, Agl 8 (10), Stm 17, Per 13, Int 11, Lck 8; Law, HP 39, AC 17, R+2, F+4, W+2, band/shld, warhammer, longsword, longbow, pitchfork

Han Dee, (Weaver) Neutral Thief, Str 10, Agi 13, Stm 11, Per 11, Int 15, Lck 14, AC 13 (Leather), HP 25, Luck Die d6, Backstab 3, Sneak Silently 10, Hide In Shadows 9, Pick Pocket 10, Climb Sheer 10, Pick Lock 9, Find Trap 9, Disable Trap 9, Forge Doc 10, Disguise 3, Read Lang 5, Handle Poison 3, Cast Scroll d14+2, birth augur (Born under the loom) +1 to all skill checks (including thief skills), Banepicks (auto pick lock/disable trap, but lose 1d3 random ability loss, if a 3 then 1 pt is perm)


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 Post subject: Re: occupation table and race
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:21 pm 
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Chaos-Summoning Sorcerer

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GnomeBoy wrote:
Hunh. Okay. Must've been established comparatively recently, and I didn't catch it.

There's a link in the FAQ back to Joseph saying that was his intent.


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 Post subject: Re: occupation table and race
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:59 pm 
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It's nice to discover I'm not crazy: http://www.goodman-games.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=36918#p36918

At least someone else was under the same impression I was. I think I can remember the concept coming up at the playtest in February at DunDraCon, but perhaps I misunderstood Joe's intent at that time. I seem to recall the words "An elf that then levels up as a Wizard would be less elf-y" or something to that effect, and maybe there was an unstated "and that would be crazy! So the game doesn't work that way" that I didn't pick up on. It could also have been eaten up in background noise.


And so, I suppose my reading of the RAW is actually the discovery of a typo of sorts...

Quote:
The demi-human classes of dwarf, elf and halfling may only be selected by characters whose 0-level occupation was of that race.

This reads to mean that my human farmer can't turn into a dwarf (by choice of class, anyway). It does not preclude an Elf Thief or a Halfling Wizard...


The book should say something like...

Quote:
The demi-human classes of dwarf, elf and halfling advance only in their appropriate racial class.

...or words to that effect.

_________________
Gnome Boy (a.k.a. "Jon") • DCC play-tester @ DDC 35, Feb 2011. • Beta DL 2111, 7:00 AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since 1977 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters - Holds the power to play gnomes at will!

Here Be DCC Monsters...

General Yoros, Warrior, Str 13, Agl 8 (10), Stm 17, Per 13, Int 11, Lck 8; Law, HP 39, AC 17, R+2, F+4, W+2, band/shld, warhammer, longsword, longbow, pitchfork

Han Dee, (Weaver) Neutral Thief, Str 10, Agi 13, Stm 11, Per 11, Int 15, Lck 14, AC 13 (Leather), HP 25, Luck Die d6, Backstab 3, Sneak Silently 10, Hide In Shadows 9, Pick Pocket 10, Climb Sheer 10, Pick Lock 9, Find Trap 9, Disable Trap 9, Forge Doc 10, Disguise 3, Read Lang 5, Handle Poison 3, Cast Scroll d14+2, birth augur (Born under the loom) +1 to all skill checks (including thief skills), Banepicks (auto pick lock/disable trap, but lose 1d3 random ability loss, if a 3 then 1 pt is perm)


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 Post subject: Re: occupation table and race
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:01 pm 
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Chaos-Summoning Sorcerer

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:28 am
Posts: 779
Yes, that's why it's in the FAQ.


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 Post subject: Re: occupation table and race
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:48 pm 
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Ill-Fated Peasant

Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:11 am
Posts: 3
It's good to understand the intent, anyway. I'm new to this, and I'm picking it up as I go along. Please to not be offended by my ignorance.

I think I still have issue with the outcome, but I can manage the expectations of my players now. Basically, if you survive zero level, you >get to< (but don't have to) pick a class that matches the advantages of the character (stats & luck) - unless you happen to be a demi-human. Demi-humans get some great (and not so great) advantages, but they aren't able to make their native ability shine unless it already matches what they need.

Which I get, in a 1000' view kind of way. The intent is to balance by probability and survival, not min-max options. All the same, it's a little disappointing to reward surviving the first expedition into the wild only to realise you're the world's most personable dwarf or smartest halfling. I expect to see some more racial classes at some point, and when that happens, I hope they make a token effort to support different statistics (at least among the dwarf and halflings... the elf already has so many attribute dependencies it barely matters).

thanks for the feedback-


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 Post subject: Re: occupation table and race
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:28 pm 
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Chaos-Summoning Sorcerer

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Joseph doesn't rule the idea that there are other "Dwarf" classes. They just aren't in the rulebook.


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