Goodman Games

I'm kind of struggling with how to explain the occupation roll/chart and race/class interaction to my players. Basically, some of the occupations seem to pick race at zero level, so does that mean those character don't get a class choice at 1st level?

I'm guessing I'll let the players that want to play demi-humans reroll anything that doesn't make sense, and let players that want to play humans reroll demi-human results.

Anyone else have thoughts on the matter?

The key is that all of character generation is supposed to be random, so whether they get to be human or not is part of the random process. And no, they don't really get to choose at 1st level.

On the other hand, they call them "house" rules because in your own home you get to ignore what you like. If your players really want to play a certain type of character, nothing stops you from letting them do it. I'd suggest letting them try random ones first, however, because they might try random and like it, but once they get to pick they won't want to try random later.

Halafax wrote:...some of the occupations seem to pick race at zero level, so does that mean those character don't get a class choice at 1st level?

finarvyn wrote:...no, they don't really get to choose at 1st level.

Wait -- they do, don't they?

If your Level-Zero character is a Dwarf and he leveling up to 1st Level, he can choose the Dwarf or the non-racial Classes, yeah? He just can't pick Elf or Halfling. Similarly for Elves and Halflings, I think.

But yes, the racial component is supposed to be random at Level Zero, just like just about everything else at that level.

GnomeBoy wrote:If your Level-Zero character is a Dwarf and he leveling up to 1st Level, he can choose the Dwarf or the non-racial Classes, yeah? He just can't pick Elf or Halfling. Similarly for Elves and Halflings, I think.

Not according to the FAQ. (Yeah, I used my FAQ.)

GnomeBoy wrote:

Halafax wrote: If your Level-Zero character is a Dwarf and he leveling up to 1st Level, he can choose the Dwarf or the non-racial Classes, yeah? He just can't pick Elf or Halfling. Similarly for Elves and Halflings, I think.

I think it's been established elsewhere that if you roll any of the dwarf professions, and you survive to 1st level, your class is Dwarf. You can't be a dwarf wizard or what have you.

Hunh. Okay. Must've been established comparatively recently, and I didn't catch it.

GnomeBoy wrote:Hunh. Okay. Must've been established comparatively recently, and I didn't catch it.

There's a link in the FAQ back to Joseph saying that was his intent.

It's nice to discover I'm not crazy: http://www.goodman-games.com/forums/vie ... 918#p36918

At least someone else was under the same impression I was. I think I can remember the concept coming up at the playtest in February at DunDraCon, but perhaps I misunderstood Joe's intent at that time. I seem to recall the words "An elf that then levels up as a Wizard would be less elf-y" or something to that effect, and maybe there was an unstated "and that would be crazy! So the game doesn't work that way" that I didn't pick up on. It could also have been eaten up in background noise.


And so, I suppose my reading of the RAW is actually the discovery of a typo of sorts...

The demi-human classes of dwarf, elf and halfling may only be selected by characters whose 0-level occupation was of that race.

This reads to mean that my human farmer can't turn into a dwarf (by choice of class, anyway). It does not preclude an Elf Thief or a Halfling Wizard...


The book should say something like...

The demi-human classes of dwarf, elf and halfling advance only in their appropriate racial class.

...or words to that effect.

Yes, that's why it's in the FAQ.

It's good to understand the intent, anyway. I'm new to this, and I'm picking it up as I go along. Please to not be offended by my ignorance.

I think I still have issue with the outcome, but I can manage the expectations of my players now. Basically, if you survive zero level, you >get to< (but don't have to) pick a class that matches the advantages of the character (stats & luck) - unless you happen to be a demi-human. Demi-humans get some great (and not so great) advantages, but they aren't able to make their native ability shine unless it already matches what they need.

Which I get, in a 1000' view kind of way. The intent is to balance by probability and survival, not min-max options. All the same, it's a little disappointing to reward surviving the first expedition into the wild only to realise you're the world's most personable dwarf or smartest halfling. I expect to see some more racial classes at some point, and when that happens, I hope they make a token effort to support different statistics (at least among the dwarf and halflings... the elf already has so many attribute dependencies it barely matters).

thanks for the feedback-

Joseph doesn't rule the idea that there are other "Dwarf" classes. They just aren't in the rulebook.