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Dice: generating "Zocchi results" using "normal" polyhedrons http://www.goodmangames.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=15068 
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Author:  GnomeBoy [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:19 pm ] 
Post subject:  Re: Dice: generating "Zocchi results" using "normal" polyhed 
sirhotalot wrote: ...These die produce a +1 on average compared to what the actual die would get (whereas a D30 might produce an average 14 a d20+d10 produces an average of 15)... I'm glad this is not a facetoface conversation, or I'd have to point out that this is all wrong. A d30 averages a 15.5 result. A d20+d10 averages a 16. And none of the 'suggestions' work. ~whew~ Glad it's just a forum! 
Author:  sirhotalot [ Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:05 pm ] 
Post subject:  Re: Dice: generating "Zocchi results" using "normal" polyhed 
GnomeBoy wrote: sirhotalot wrote: ...These die produce a +1 on average compared to what the actual die would get (whereas a D30 might produce an average 14 a d20+d10 produces an average of 15)... I'm glad this is not a facetoface conversation, or I'd have to point out that this is all wrong. A d30 averages a 15.5 result. A d20+d10 averages a 16. And none of the 'suggestions' work. ~whew~ Glad it's just a forum! Yea I checked weeks ago and didn't bother to recheck when posting. 
Author:  finarvyn [ Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:25 am ] 
Post subject:  Re: Dice: generating "Zocchi results" using "normal" polyhed 
Don't stress over it. Lots of folks get probabilites messed up. Heck, I've posted some stuff in a hurry myself, then later did the "headslap" thing and wondered what I was thinking when I posted it. In general, any time you add dice together you get an uneven probability curve. 
Author:  tithian [ Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:36 am ] 
Post subject:  Re: Dice: generating "Zocchi results" using "normal" polyhed 
Here is my solution to the dice issue. Use a permanent marker to 'connect the dots' on standard issue casino D6 dice. You can create 3 types of dice: D3: for standard D3 rolls D02: for D24, D26, and D28 D01: for D14, D16 and D18. You can also use the D01 as a modifier die with the 1 indicating +1 or 1 as required for D5, D7 or D9. See the attached image. upload gif 
Author:  abk108 [ Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:59 am ] 
Post subject:  Re: Dice: generating "Zocchi results" using "normal" polyhed 
tithian wrote: Here is my solution to the dice issue. Use a permanent marker to 'connect the dots' on standard issue casino D6 dice. You can create 3 types of dice: D3: for standard D3 rolls D02: for D24, D26, and D28 D01: for D14, D16 and D18. You can also use the D01 as a modifier die with the 1 indicating +1 or 1 as required for D5, D7 or D9. See the attached image. upload gif This was a nice idea for getting a d3... but the suggestions at the bottom are absolutely wrong. How can you think of rolling a d24 by rollin a d02 ALONGSIDE a d4? That would only create 01, 02, 03, 04 , 11, 12, 13, 14, 21, 22, 23, 24. The correct use for a D02 (or any other d0X) is as a control die. For a d24 you can roll (12 * d01) +d12 or (8 * d02) +d8 This works exactly as the D%, which is (10* d09) + d09 
Author:  tithian [ Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:22 am ] 
Post subject:  Re: Dice: generating "Zocchi results" using "normal" polyhed 
Doh! I'm an idiot. And thank you for correcting me! Your method is great! G 
Author:  abk108 [ Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:25 am ] 
Post subject:  Re: Dice: generating "Zocchi results" using "normal" polyhed 
tithian wrote: Doh! I'm an idiot. And thank you for correcting me! Your method is great! G Don't worry This is what the forums are for...! Otherwise we would all try our (often dumb) houserules in our games, messing everything up! 
Author:  jmucchiello [ Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:02 pm ] 
Post subject:  Re: Dice: generating "Zocchi results" using "normal" polyhed 
abk108 wrote: How can you think of rolling a d24 by rollin a d02 ALONGSIDE a d4? He obviously meant a d12 renumbered: 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2 rolled along with a d20 that was dual numbered: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5/1, 6/2, 7/3, 8/4, 9/1, 10/2, 11/3, 12/4, 13/1, 14/2, 15/3, 16/4, 17/1, 18/2, 19/3, 20/4. (That was annoying to type. ) Or he wanted to roll it with a d10 to make a d30. What I want to know is why the d3 uses angled lines over the 5pip face but backward E over the 6pip face. Would backward E look more consistent on both dice? Likewise draw the 1 diagonally on the 1pip face so it looks the same as the 1 drawn on the 3pip faces. (And is consistent with the 01 die.) 
Author:  abk108 [ Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:20 pm ] 
Post subject:  Re: Dice: generating "Zocchi results" using "normal" polyhed 
..or if you really don't want a d6 numbered 123123 (i just bought one for like 1€..) you can just fill with white paint the extra dots to make the 6 a 3, the 4 a 1, and the 5 a 2... It doesn't look extracool but you can clearly see the result you got. 
Author:  Eldric IV [ Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:27 pm ] 
Post subject:  Re: Dice: generating "Zocchi results" using "normal" polyhed 
Switch the 2 and 5 on the D01. I do not like those naked pips. 
Author:  fjw70 [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:02 am ] 
Post subject:  Re: Dice: generating "Zocchi results" using "normal" polyhed 
I have considered using a d4, d6, and d8 to simulate the d3, d5, and d7, and if you get the high number (I.e. 4, 6, or then just use the average result instead of rerolling. It would skew the result slightly to the average but wouldn't change the average. 
Author:  abk108 [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:13 pm ] 
Post subject:  Re: Dice: generating "Zocchi results" using "normal" polyhed 
fjw70 wrote: I have considered using a d4, d6, and d8 to simulate the d3, d5, and d7, and if you get the high number (I.e. 4, 6, or then just use the average result instead of rerolling. It would skew the result slightly to the average but wouldn't change the average. why would you do that? It's like having a d5 numbered 1,2,3,3,4,5.... It messes things up! 
Author:  fjw70 [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:46 pm ] 
Post subject:  Re: Dice: generating "Zocchi results" using "normal" polyhed 
abk108 wrote: fjw70 wrote: I have considered using a d4, d6, and d8 to simulate the d3, d5, and d7, and if you get the high number (I.e. 4, 6, or then just use the average result instead of rerolling. It would skew the result slightly to the average but wouldn't change the average. why would you do that? It's like having a d5 numbered 1,2,3,3,4,5.... It messes things up! Just an easy way to simulate the funky dice without rerolls. It doesn't change the average and skews to the average a little bit. 
Author:  jmucchiello [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:53 pm ] 
Post subject:  Re: Dice: generating "Zocchi results" using "normal" polyhed 
fjw70 wrote: abk108 wrote: fjw70 wrote: I have considered using a d4, d6, and d8 to simulate the d3, d5, and d7, and if you get the high number (I.e. 4, 6, or then just use the average result instead of rerolling. It would skew the result slightly to the average but wouldn't change the average. why would you do that? It's like having a d5 numbered 1,2,3,3,4,5.... It messes things up! Just an easy way to simulate the funky dice without rerolls. It doesn't change the average and skews to the average a little bit. It skews it by 25%, 16.6%, and 12.5%. That's a lot! 
Author:  fjw70 [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:36 pm ] 
Post subject:  Re: Dice: generating "Zocchi results" using "normal" polyhed 
jmucchiello wrote: It skews it by 25%, 16.6%, and 12.5%. That's a lot! Just throwing out an idea. 
Author:  abk108 [ Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:35 pm ] 
Post subject:  Re: Dice: generating "Zocchi results" using "normal" polyhed 
fjw70 wrote: jmucchiello wrote: It skews it by 25%, 16.6%, and 12.5%. That's a lot! Just throwing out an idea. Don't worry we weren't criticizing the idea we were pointing out that it's not really a "slight" change... 
Author:  fjw70 [ Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:59 am ] 
Post subject:  Re: Dice: generating "Zocchi results" using "normal" polyhed 
abk108 wrote: fjw70 wrote: jmucchiello wrote: It skews it by 25%, 16.6%, and 12.5%. That's a lot! Just throwing out an idea. Don't worry we weren't criticizing the idea we were pointing out that it's not really a "slight" change... You guys just hate me. Seriously, the d3 and d5 are easy enough to simulate with d6s and d10, but using the d8 to simulate a d7 (with an 8 = 4) wouldn't be that big of a deal. Instead of 14% prob for each number you would have 12.5% for most and 25% for a 4. For a MDoA to succeed the prod would change from 71% to 75%. But I guess we have each had our say so I won't keep beating a dead horse. 
Author:  abk108 [ Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:06 pm ] 
Post subject:  Re: Dice: generating "Zocchi results" using "normal" polyhed 
fjw70 wrote: But I guess we have each had our say so I won't keep beating a dead horse. *Dead horse's widow sighs with relief* 
Author:  MutieMoe [ Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:55 pm ] 
Post subject:  Re: Dice: generating "Zocchi results" using "normal" polyhed 
I just wanted to say that suggestions in this thread will come really handy when playing with the Beta rules, I especially like the simple conversion of normal casino d6 to d2 and d3. 
Author:  finarvyn [ Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:58 am ] 
Post subject:  Re: Dice: generating "Zocchi results" using "normal" polyhed 
fjw70 wrote: using the d8 to simulate a d7 (with an 8 = 4) wouldn't be that big of a deal 1. You're right that it probably wouldn't be a big deal. 2. Why mess with the probabilities at all? Just roll the d8 and reroll all 8's that come up. 
Author:  fjw70 [ Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:24 pm ] 
Post subject:  Re: Dice: generating "Zocchi results" using "normal" polyhed 
finarvyn wrote: fjw70 wrote: using the d8 to simulate a d7 (with an 8 = 4) wouldn't be that big of a deal 1. You're right that it probably wouldn't be a big deal. 2. Why mess with the probabilities at all? Just roll the d8 and reroll all 8's that come up. I imagine rerolls could be annoying. 
Author:  abk108 [ Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:21 am ] 
Post subject:  Re: Dice: generating "Zocchi results" using "normal" polyhed 
i don't see them happening too often, since they 1) don't have huge chances (1/6 to say with d5) 2) the dice you're simulating are not widely used: you might have to roll a d5 not more than 34 times a session, and that's if the warrior is level 3 and uses it for MDoA I mean, i hated to roll a d14 or d16 with a d20 rerolling 1/3 or 1/4 of the times! (wasting 19s and 20s!!) but with d7 i wouldnt mind rolling a d8. 
Author:  jmucchiello [ Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:58 am ] 
Post subject:  Re: Dice: generating "Zocchi results" using "normal" polyhed 
fjw70 wrote: finarvyn wrote: fjw70 wrote: using the d8 to simulate a d7 (with an 8 = 4) wouldn't be that big of a deal 1. You're right that it probably wouldn't be a big deal. 2. Why mess with the probabilities at all? Just roll the d8 and reroll all 8's that come up. I imagine rerolls could be annoying. How about trying it first and then you would know for sure if it is annoying or not. 
Author:  fjw70 [ Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:18 pm ] 
Post subject:  Re: Dice: generating "Zocchi results" using "normal" polyhed 
jmucchiello wrote: How about trying it first and then you would know for sure if it is annoying or not. Well I have done rerolling before. In AD&D I would roll a d8 instead of 2d4 (I have always disliked the standard d4) and rerolled ones (yes I know the distribution is totally different but his was when I was young and didn't understand these things yet). The rerolling was annoying but less annoying than d4s. 
Author:  fjw70 [ Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:20 pm ] 
Post subject:  Re: Dice: generating "Zocchi results" using "normal" polyhed 
abk108 wrote: i don't see them happening too often, since they 1) don't have huge chances (1/6 to say with d5) 2) the dice you're simulating are not widely used: you might have to roll a d5 not more than 34 times a session, and that's if the warrior is level 3 and uses it for MDoA I mean, i hated to roll a d14 or d16 with a d20 rerolling 1/3 or 1/4 of the times! (wasting 19s and 20s!!) but with d7 i wouldnt mind rolling a d8. My 3rd level warriors and dwarves are going to be rolling a d5 more than 34 time a session. I will probably just get the actual dice. I picked up a d30 this weekend from a local game store. 
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