Resurrection ?

[geordie racer]

How is this doing to be handled, is it a ritual or a spell (maybe with reincarnation and undeath as possible spell failures), is it even included in the rules or something more complex like the journey back in Jack of Shadows ?

[mshensley]

My favorite literary version of resurrection magic comes from Martin's Ice & Fire books (I know - not appendix N). A couple of characters are brought back, but their wounds are still evident and each time they are brought back they become a bit more zombie like. It's pretty creepy.

[smathis]

My favorite literary version of resurrection magic comes from Martin's Ice & Fire books (I know - not appendix N). A couple of characters are brought back, but their wounds are still evident and each time they are brought back they become a bit more zombie like. It's pretty creepy.

+1 from me. Can't wait for the next book. Seems like we'll have a third character resurrected in the book after that...

[jmucchiello]

Personally, I hope there are no rules whatsoever involving resurrection. DMs who want it can make up their own house rules to cover the EXACT methods of resurrection they want in their game without whiney players saying "but it's in the book" and DMs who don't want resurrection in the game can say "It's not in the book." Best of both worlds, I think.

[smathis]

Personally, I hope there are no rules whatsoever involving resurrection. DMs who want it can make up their own house rules to cover the EXACT methods of resurrection they want in their game without whiney players saying "but it's in the book" and DMs who don't want resurrection in the game can say "It's not in the book." Best of both worlds, I think.

Yeah, I could see Resurrection as being some sort of sidebar thing telling people to do it their own way... here are some pointers.

To my thinking, Resurrection should be more of a ritual, anyway. Not a spell. Unless DCC wants to present most excellent rules for all thing ritually, I don't see a need for it in the core book. Seems like there will be several "grimoire" style 3PPs under consideration.

[Ravenheart87]

One high level and expensive Resurrection spell won't hurt. You can leave it out if you don't like, but it could be really annoying when you loose a high level character, and need to reroll. Heck, the Holy Bible is quite "low fantasy" and even that has a few resurrections. Just like almost every mythology...

[Geoffrey]

I'd leave resurrection out of the rulebook. How many times in an Appendix N book did somebody cast a resurrection spell? The best thing for resurrection is for it to be handled on a (very rare!) case-by-case basis via DM fiat.

[Hamakto]

I am for leaving it in the game.

I know it is not appendix N... but Joel Rosenburg's Sword in the Chain Series has an excellent example of resurrection in it.

A single Level R caster (i.e. level 17 caster) is known in the world to be able to bring someone back from the dead. But she does not do it for treasure, but she extracts a service from the party for bringing back that person from the dead. Each individual contributes something for the resurrection.

Plus... it takes a whole year to cast...

The above is an example, but I think it can be something that is in the game. Make it difficult to use, but still possible for the party to accomplish.

[Machpants]

I vote sidebar too, not very App N to me.

[Ravenheart87]

Resurrection "not very Appendix N"? Hour of the Dragon, Xaltotun?

[jmucchiello]

I am for leaving it in the game.

I know it is not appendix N...
A single Level R caster (i.e. level 17 caster) is known in the world to be able to ....
Plus... it takes a whole year to cast...

So, given the three statements, why does it need to be in the book? Especially when spells in DCCRPG take a full page?

[mshensley]

Resurrection "not very Appendix N"? Hour of the Dragon, Xaltotun?

Good catch, I forgot about that one.

I do seem to recall that the priest of Asura says that he was really still dead with only the illusion of being alive. So I guess that would have made him like a lich.

[smathis]

I vote sidebar too, not very App N to me.

Yeah, the different positions on this issue only reinforces me wanting it in a sidebar. I don't think DCC is going to include Rituals. And, to me, true-blue Resurrection is most definitely a Ritual.

[GnomeBoy]

Isn't resurrection that thing you have to journey to the Underworld/Afterlife to get done...?

[JediOre]

Don't forget Gandalf's transition from Grey to White. I think that might be included in this category.

[smathis]

Don't forget Gandalf's transition from Grey to White. I think that might be included in this category.

I don't know how that would be modeled mechanically. It always seemed like that was a dire case of GM fiat.

[nanstreet]

I'd like ressurection to be in a sidebar, too, and then DMs can incorperate it into their campaigns in the way that it best fits. Personally, I'd rather adjust the lethality of the game to start with than have people pop back up from dead. If resurrection needed to be part of the campaign, I'd favor a difficult quest involving a ritual tailored to the specific events that caused the death, or a journey to the underworld to retrieve the soul, over a simple raise dead spell.

[Hamakto]

I'd like ressurection to be in a sidebar, too, and then DMs can incorperate it into their campaigns in the way that it best fits. Personally, I'd rather adjust the lethality of the game to start with than have people pop back up from dead. If resurrection needed to be part of the campaign, I'd favor a difficult quest involving a ritual tailored to the specific events that caused the death, or a journey to the underworld to retrieve the soul, over a simple raise dead spell.

See I always liked the way 1e did resurrection. Yes it existed and was available. But each time you got resurrected, you had to roll a % chance to 'survive' the resurrection based on your constitution score (NOTE: Failure means you can never be resurrected again). Even if you were successful, you lost a point of constitution which lowered your next chance of resurrection. It was very simple.

To convert this to a DCC mechanic, you could do something like this:

d20 Roll vs CON --- modified as follows:
bonus: acquisition of a holy or special magical object used/consumed in the ritual
penalty: length of time being dead. (-1:day, -2:week, -3:month, -4:year, -5:decade, -6:century)

remember that most characters will have between 8-12 CON. That will give them a 40-60% chance of surviving a resurrection attempt if it is the same day as the death.

The percentage starts to rapidly drop after that if it takes time to do the resurrection.

Why do something like this? It provides a simple mechanic (yes it can be house ruled in), but it fits right in with the save or die type concept.

It becomes an (extra die roll) that gives a small chance of coming back from the dead. Heck, the resurrection spell could also have side effects that occur when brought back from the dead based on the spell check. I do feel that it does fit the random nature of DCC and it will sit well with the people who play the game. A small chance to bring that beloved character back from the dead, without making death meaningless.

[mshensley]

Since Raise Dead is a spell, it would have an affects table. I've posted this one I made for D&D before, but here it is in DCC form. Something like this would add a lot of flavor, and trepidation, to the event.

1: Failure, something else comes through - (1d4) 1-Demon, 2-Invisible Stalker, 3-Shadow, 4-Wraith.
2-3: Failure, character's body putrefies horribly and becomes a black ooze.
4-8: Failure, character's body possessed by demon.
9-11: Failure, character comes back as (1d6) 1-Ghoul, 2-Zombie, 3-Wight, 4-Vampire, 5-Wraith, 6-Ghost.
12-13: Character raised from dead, but not for long - character loses 1 point per day from a random stat. Once any stat equals 0, character becomes a zombie.
14-17: Character raised from dead, but requires life force to work - random person within 30' takes 7d6 damage.
18-19: Character raised from dead, but is disfigured by death - lose 2 points of Personality.
20-23: Character raised from dead, but is in a weakened state - Strength and Agility reduced to 3 for a month.
24-27: Character raised from dead.
28-29: Character raised from dead. Blessed - all rolls are +1 for a month.
30-31: Character raised from dead. Saw the light- transformed emotionally by event. Gain +2 to Luck and Personality.
32+: Character raised from dead. Become more powerful than you can possibly imagine- character gains one level.

[rabindranath72]

Resurrection "not very Appendix N"? Hour of the Dragon, Xaltotun?

Good catch, I forgot about that one.

I do seem to recall that the priest of Asura says that he was really still dead with only the illusion of being alive. So I guess that would have made him like a lich.

Yes. It was only an illusion of life. Xaltotun was an undead.

[kataskicana]

Three things:

1) I vote very strongly for no ressurection in the game. DM's can handle whiny players however they choose, or the players can sac up and learn that Raise Dead denies them of the most heroic of moments for their characters... a death. Thirty years later we can all babble about many great heroes who 'made an end worth a song.' Nothing done by a character who has been killed and raised even once can ever stack up!

2) Gandalf was never killed. He was cast down by the Balrog and his form was taken away. Gandalf was literally a Gawd... or demi-gawd technically. Not a PC, not a mortal, or even an immortal Elf... a gawd... one of the Maia.

I don't think it counts. Its more akin to Mythological tales of resurrection.

3) as has been mentioned putting it in a sidebar allows the DM the ability to do as he pleases much more freely than when it is publised as an existing spell or ability that might even exist within the party. Having a small entry on player death and ideas for handling it would be much better. Heroes go through sidekicks... if your character died... guess you were just the sidekick!

[Harley Stroh]

Heroes go through sidekicks... if your character died... guess you were just the sidekick!

Heh. Brilliant.

//H

[jmucchiello]

2) Gandalf was never killed. He was cast down by the Balrog and his form was taken away. Gandalf was literally a Gawd... or demi-gawd technically. Not a PC, not a mortal, or even an immortal Elf... a gawd... one of the Maia.

Gandalf's gawd status isn't really mentioned in LOTR. You to read the Silmarillion to learn that, don't you?

[kataskicana]

I have to confess it has been too many years since I have re-read the LOTR (Jackson's films really put me off on them), but I recall it being pretty clear that Gandalf was 'special'. He was older than dirt, was not an elf, certainly was not merely a man... I am sure you are right that the term Maia and the mythological aspects were not thrown out in the prose. I am not as clear on what might or might not have been mentioned in the appendices. There was a lot of stuff in there and I am guilty of not having re-read them every time when I used to read the trilogy annually.

I can't recite the entire St Crispin's speech from memory and would feel like I was cheating by going to copy it from somewhere... but thats darn good, legendary, manly, tear up kind of stuff... not possible in a world with Ressurection.

No real risk, no real reward!

[moes1980]

I would vote to include a resurection spell/ritual. They really did not come up often in any games I ever played that had it as an option unsless we were pretty high level. Even than, it was rare as we would usually have to seek out some one that could cast it and/or and a 10,000 gp daimond. It sounds liek ti would be fun in DCCRPG any way with those casting rolls.