Goodman Games

I thought I'd start a thread for posters to throw up powergaming thoughts, questions and issues. I'm not saying powergaming's right or wrong, just one way to test parts of the system.

e.g.

If there is more than one halfling in a party can they stack Luck bonuses ?

Imagine the party consists of 1 wizard and 3 halflings.

The wizard goes to cast a spell, the halflings transfer their Luck to him giving him a +6 outcome (and that's without adding caster level, bonus for high INT or him Spellburning) !

A 3rd level wizard with 18 INT (I know, but it's possible to roll an 18) and 3 halfling allies is gonna be able to add +12 to a roll even without spellburning.

Then apply that to the Magic Missile table. The wizard doesn't miss and he's likely to pull off some massive damage.

No wonder Gandalf survived the Balrog encounter, he had 4 halflings willing him on

One halfling then goes to strike a foe with his two weapons - he needs to get a max roll on one of his hit dice to crit (?), it's a a d16, with the other two halflings giving him luck as well as his own he only needs roll 10+ to crit. This is without other modifiers due to possible high AGL.

By then the Luck of the halflings has only decreased by 2 each. If multiple halflings Luck is stackable then that's a damn useful boon.

This would make a cleric + halflings combo pretty powerful, as they could offset any disfavour he has with his god, to keep him pulling off miracles all day.

Do NPC halflings get the bonus too ? - if so my evil overlord is recruiting them with generous offers of free pie and ale.

goodmangames wrote:While all characters can burn Luck to modify any roll (at a consequence - get a low enough Luck score and your character will find himself tripping over loose flagstones in the dungeon), a halfling can burn Luck to modify OTHER PLAYERS' rolls. Additionally, it burns at a 2:1 ratio (so every point of Luck grants a +2 bonus), and halflings recover Luck at the rate of 1 point per day.

I've just re-read the above - it doesn't seem to give a maximum number of how many points a halfling can choose to burn at one time - is it static, level-related, or player choice ?

My examples above were just based on the 3 halflings just being able to generate 2 Luck each, if they could burn more - crikey - that 3rd Level Wizard is even more able to just sit at home, scry out his enemies with a crystal ball and magic missile them. At that point it becomes more like science than magic, with halflings adding that predictability of success.

Sean, I like the way you think! I'm not sure I can duplicate it, but I like it.

I'm not sure I've ever seen any sort of "bonus stacking" rule anywhere. I'll have to re-read and see if I can find anything on this, but I suspect the rules aren't designed to work in this way.

Even if they did, the way stats are rolled it's possible that the total bonus would still be pretty small. I had one player who rolled up three characters, all with negative luck modifiers. Imagine what would happen if those stacked.

finarvyn wrote:Sean, I like the way you think! I'm not sure I can duplicate it, but I like it.

Cheers Marv, I know that my players will always try to interpret the rules to their advantage, so just I'm preparing myself as well as I can

As Gandalf noted in the Rings saga (and I'm paraphrasing here but I'm pretty sure he said it), "There's luck to having a halfling in the party." Key word is "a" -- not plural! Quoting from the rules:

Note that the good luck charm ability applies to only one halfling in the party. There is luck to having a halfling with an adventuring party, but there is not “more luck” to having more than one halfling. If multiple halflings accompany an adventuring party, only one of them counts as a good luck charm, and that cannot change through rearranging or separating the party. Luck is a fickle thing governed by gods and game masters, and players would do well not to attempt to manipulate the spirit of this rule.

Does that help?

The one other power-gaming element that has come up is a cleric spell that heals "non-damaging effects" such as poisons, diseases, and lost ability scores. In one playtest session, the cleric and wizard teamed up to constantly spellburn -> heal the ability loss -> spellburn -> heal the ability loss. That one's getting fixed, too. Again, going back to the "story" behind the mechanics, the wizard spellburn was associated to drawing upon a supernatural power, and clerics who send their deity to intervene with the workings of another power's doing may find themselves sparking divine conflicts they don't want to be caught in the middle of...

Aside from that, there hasn't really been any power-gaming to speak of...

goodmangames wrote:Does that help?

Yes, thanks Joseph . I like the 'story' explanation for dealing with the cleric/wizard combo too.

geordie racer wrote:I thought I'd start a thread for posters to throw up powergaming thoughts, questions and issues. I'm not saying powergaming's right or wrong, just one way to test parts of the system.

e.g.

If there is more than one halfling in a party can they stack Luck bonuses ?

Imagine the party consists of 1 wizard and 3 halflings.

The wizard goes to cast a spell, the halflings transfer their Luck to him giving him a +6 outcome (and that's without adding caster level, bonus for high INT or him Spellburning) !

A 3rd level wizard with 18 INT (I know, but it's possible to roll an 18) and 3 halfling allies is gonna be able to add +12 to a roll even without spellburning.

Then apply that to the Magic Missile table. The wizard doesn't miss and he's likely to pull off some massive damage.

No wonder Gandalf survived the Balrog encounter, he had 4 halflings willing him on

One halfling then goes to strike a foe with his two weapons - he needs to get a max roll on one of his hit dice to crit (?), it's a a d16, with the other two halflings giving him luck as well as his own he only needs roll 10+ to crit. This is without other modifiers due to possible high AGL.

By then the Luck of the halflings has only decreased by 2 each. If multiple halflings Luck is stackable then that's a damn useful boon.

This would make a cleric + halflings combo pretty powerful, as they could offset any disfavour he has with his god, to keep him pulling off miracles all day.

Do NPC halflings get the bonus too ? - if so my evil overlord is recruiting them with generous offers of free pie and ale.

goodmangames wrote:While all characters can burn Luck to modify any roll (at a consequence - get a low enough Luck score and your character will find himself tripping over loose flagstones in the dungeon), a halfling can burn Luck to modify OTHER PLAYERS' rolls. Additionally, it burns at a 2:1 ratio (so every point of Luck grants a +2 bonus), and halflings recover Luck at the rate of 1 point per day.

I've just re-read the above - it doesn't seem to give a maximum number of how many points a halfling can choose to burn at one time - is it static, level-related, or player choice ?

My examples above were just based on the 3 halflings just being able to generate 2 Luck each, if they could burn more - crikey - that 3rd Level Wizard is even more able to just sit at home, scry out his enemies with a crystal ball and magic missile them. At that point it becomes more like science than magic, with halflings adding that predictability of success.

So funny free pie and ale