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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:48 pm 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

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Ironically, a bigger company like WotC might have a tougher time pulling off something like Whiterock because they might have to justify the use of so many resources to Hasbro. (I honestly don't know how financial approval works over there -- I'm just guessing based on my years in the corporate world.)



This is a really interesting point that would have never occured to me and it makes a lot of sense.

Even so, you'd think the owners of the D&D game would have made at least one "good" megadungeon during their existance but in my opinion they never did. They're more interested in giving you a framework for a big dungeon than the real thing.

Which makes Castle Whiterock all the more interesting... in a way, it's a real old school oddity. Man, I can't wait to buy it. Hopefully it will be available on Amazon so I can get the big discount on it... :D


Last edited by Rath on Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:31 pm 
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huh, i'd never thought of it that way either. sorta like how wotc was too slow to get in on free rpg day. single biggest promo the industry has in over a decade and the industry "leader" is nowhere to be found.

ah well. we still have our whiterock!

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 Post subject: the return of Topographic Rex
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:36 am 
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hah!

You thought you all had escaped me from these boards at last! But I return. Anyway...[cough, cough], I'm back. Umm, on the boards, that is. I never really went anywhere, unless you count the little vacations I take from sanity, from time to time.

Having recently surfaced from the map and design (mostly map) duties of Castle Whiterock, I am now more than pleased to dangle the tease of ONE MOTHER OF A DUNGEON over you all! [Giggle...giggle].


I must admit, when I first saw this project, I thought the writers were nuts, and that Joseph had finally lost his gourd. Now, having worked through it and added my little bit...I KNOW the writers are nuts and Joseph has lost his gourd. Let's put it this way: If they weren't half-crocked before, they are now after tackling this project. Over 700 pages? I'm probably not allowed to say exactly how many maps there are...but there ARE A HELL OF A LOT! I still shudder when I think of my first few look-overs of the roughs. I devised some interesting names for Adrian and Aeryn and Chris...

Just working on Castle Whiterock (and surviving it) has taken all the the Goodman Games staff to level 15!

So, after catching a few breaths and two weeks of therapy, I have recovered from their maps and I can tell you Castle Whiterock is one of the most ambitious, complex, profound, infuriating (in a good way), drippingly despicable and character-obliterating adventures ever published in any format, by any company, any rules bracket. And I don't even know it as well as the others do (I'm just the cartographer...they toss scribbled map sheets and a few pieces of meat at me, and I do what I'm told).

See you all GenCon. I'll be happy to deface any lucky purchaser's copy at the signing table, as will any of the writers too.

WOOHOO! WHITEROCK IS DONE! WHITEROCK IS DONE!

Whiterock, like Aereth, will once again put to shame all the other publishers at the Con, most notably those publishers with ten times the war chest that GG has. Sorry WOTC, White Wolf, AEG, etc.......

HAH! :twisted: :twisted:

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:07 am 
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Curses.

Just.

Can't.

Wait for this.



...Need a novice proofreader or editor? :P


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:59 am 
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Man, this puppy is finished. Good to hear. I can't wait to get my clurches deep into this CW at Gen. Awesome.

.....................................Omote
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:37 pm 
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I'm glad to hear that its done too...

What I don't understand is that, if its already finished (and there will be copies available at the con) why will it take until November before its released to the general public?

I'm no expert on the turn around time for products to go to the printer and come back but four months seems like a long time.

I want it now!!!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:47 pm 
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Just working on Castle Whiterock (and surviving it) has taken all the the Goodman Games staff to level 15!


Oh man, great line. Unfortunately Adrians have a Level Adjustment of +3, so I'm technically just a 12th level Whiterocksmonaut.

Topo Rex is right to chide us for the maps because he was given a TON of material to work with. Like the advert says, there's a 48-page book of maps (and one poster map). You know that grey cutaway map that's been floating around since Free RPG Day? Jeremy had to map EVERY FIVE FOOT SQUARE of that thing because we filled every square with content (actual, by-Crom, stat-blocked content, mind you).

Everyone - everyone - on Team Whiterock brought their A-game to the show. You'll be hearing more about it in the weeks to come. Oh, yes.

Quote:
Just.

Can't.

Wait for this.

Quote:
I can't wait to get my clurches deep into this CW at Gen. Awesome.

Quote:
I want it now!!!


Believe you me, we are just as eager to put it in your hands. For Team Whiterock, it's going to be a heady brew of pride, catharsis, and dance-in-the-streets joy when this bad boy finally hits the shelves of your FLGS.

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Author: DCC #55: Isle of the Sea Drake, DCC #61: Citadel of the Corruptor, more to come....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:33 am 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

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Rath wrote:
I'm glad to hear that its done too...

What I don't understand is that, if its already finished (and there will be copies available at the con) why will it take until November before its released to the general public?


Oops. perhaps I spoke too soon about the ABSOLUTE level of completion of Castle Whiterock. Everything is done on my end and it's in the hands of the ed. team. I *think* they're done too, but the printing does take a while. Printing is a touchy business, especially on a piece this huge and complicated..what with getting all the colors and color separations to look perfect (I personally will kill them all, and their families, and burn down their houses...if they screw up my maps). There's getting the books bound correctly, the box cover, checking for pages being in the correct order, etc. First there is a series of proofs sent so that the editors can make sure everything is correct before the printer does the main print run.

As for the 'second wave' of box sets...

These are other matters of business, print run quantities, shipping issues and timing and all that which aren't shared much with lowly cartographers such as myself, and even if I did know probably wouldn't be best to lay out in complete detail lest I be soundly thumped by the Goodman Games Goon Squad. Nonetheless rest assured Joseph is as hot to sell as many of these as possible, no less than the WONDERFUL loyal fans are to get your greedy little mitts on it! (I say that in only the most loving, mellifluous tones), there is no chicanery here. Joseph will get as many units as possible to the Con and once those are sold out then it's up to the print gods to get things done. Shipping times are more of a bear in these matters than you might imagine, or at least that's my experience.

I feel your pain brother...you can damn well bet we (the GG team) won't be getting contributor copies there either! So we'll be able to see it and finger the lovely maps (natch) and flutter gleefully through the many-paged tomes...but in an almost crueler fate we must then watch these boxes of gaming perfection snapped from our hands...to slip away down the insidious river of supply & demand. :cry:

November is a cruel fate that awaits us all...except those who come packing the caaayyyshh!



P.S. Adrian is correct, everyone on this team pulled together and...well, pick your "team" cliche here; they're all true! This is the kind of glad-handing you might expect from a lot of design teams when they finish something so kewl, but with Whiterock there hardly be any superlatives not worthy of the effort and precision put into this.

And Adrian, don't worry about your maps. Since I was able to get them done before deadline, I've called the hitman and told him not to bother.

In all seriousness, I would have been very upset indeed if I had not been able to be a part of this incredible effort. The only thing better than being part of such a magnificent push is that the final product is actually as good, or better, than we'd hoped.

NOW, FOR GENCON, AND THE DRINKING OF BEERS! (Mountain Dew for the yung uns...sorry)

Clash swords with me, friends...and prepare for the Castle of destiny!


(I like to leave really...really long posts. Just ask LaSala)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:01 am 
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It's true.

Also...

Quote:
These are other matters of business, print run quantities, shipping issues and timing and all that which aren't shared much with lowly cartographers such as myself....

...and once those are sold out then it's up to the print gods to get things done.


See, gods who purvey the Print domain are of higher divine rank (say, 11-15), while gods with the Cartography domain are of lower rank (say, 6-10).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:54 am 
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I love how the cover colors of the four booklets match the colors of the old D&D boxed sets: Basic, Expert, Campaign and Masters. What a great homage!


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 Post subject: Re: the return of Topographic Rex
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:17 pm 
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toper wrote:
Just working on Castle Whiterock (and surviving it) has taken all the the Goodman Games staff to level 15!

That is a great line. I may not have Adrian's +3 level adjustment, but I couldn't have gained my Whiterocksmanout PrC without my 13 ranks in Editorial Tumbling, the 9 ranks in Sleight of Pen, my feat of Angst Focus, and of course the 5 levels as a cleric of Ilmater. Oh, the pain, the glorious pain...

I can't wait to see this bad boy in print!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:23 pm 
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Kameron M. Franklin wrote:
I love how the cover colors of the four booklets match the colors of the old D&D boxed sets: Basic, Expert, Campaign and Masters. What a great homage!


Wow. I have been playing a long time. I read "... old D&D boxed sets" above and thought "Old? But those are the *new* ones. The old ones have the Erol Otus covers, and those are better ..." :roll:

Looking forward to Castle Whiterock at GenCon - based on the little I've seen of it, and played it, I'm sure it's going to be outstanding.

Also looking forward (hopefully!) to meeting Erol Otus - I'm bringing my aforementioned copy of the D&D boxed basic set so he can sign it. :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:35 pm 
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Welcome to the boards, Kameron!

And I'm with you: to me, the red/blue/green/black books are the old ones...they're the ones I actually started playing with.

Damn that Bargle!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:11 pm 
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Rath wrote:
I'm no expert on the turn around time for products to go to the printer and come back but four months seems like a long time.

I want it now!!!


Here's my understanding of the situation, at least based on how the DCC World boxed set worked last year (which was the same - limited GenCon release, then full release a few months later). Harley/Joseph/anybody who knows better, jump in and let me know if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure this is the case.

DCC World was printed in China, and I'm guessing Castle Whiterock will be as well. Because of the physical size of the boxes, shipping an entire print run to the U.S. from the printer by air increases the cost immensely. So, after printing, a select few will be shipped to the U.S. by air for GenCon ... and then, the rest literally get loaded on a cargo ship that's sent to the U.S.

Remember the phrase "take the slow boat to China?" Well, it could be "take the slow boat *from* China" as well. It literally takes weeks, if not months, for some cargo ships to get from there to here (there's lots of ports along the way) ... and then the boat has to clear customs, which again, can take weeks. So that's why you're looking at such a long delay.

(And no, I'm pretty sure you just can't order one by air directly from the printer. Somehow, I think Joseph would've offered that option already if that was logistically possible.)

Hope this helps to clarify things.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:40 pm 
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Mike_Ferguson wrote:
Wow. I have been playing a long time. I read "... old D&D boxed sets" above and thought "Old? But those are the *new* ones. The old ones have the Erol Otus covers, and those are better ..." :roll:


Yeah, I had both those versions of the Basic and Expert as well. It's how I got my copies of Keep on the Borderlands and Isle of Dread. Sorry, anything pre-3E D&D is "Old" D&D now. ;) It's easier that way.

[edit]Thanks for the welcome. Stop by the Goodman Games booth at GenCon and say hi.[/edit]


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:58 pm 
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This boxed set looks like a magnificent effort, and surely will be the talk of the Con. :D
I, for one, can't wait to get my grubby mitts on a copy!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:10 pm 
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Rick Maffei wrote:
This boxed set looks like a magnificent effort, and surely will be the talk of the Con. :D
I, for one, can't wait to get my grubby mitts on a copy!


Don't worry, Rick. I'll do my best to snag a copy for you. :)

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:20 pm 
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Mike_Ferguson wrote:
Don't worry, Rick. I'll do my best to snag a copy for you. :)


Awesome Mike, thanks.
I'll happily lend you my +5 vorpal greataxe with which to fight off the slavering hordes that descend on the Goodman Games booth in search of the latest & greatest boxed set! :twisted:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:50 pm 
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Mike_Ferguson wrote:
Rath wrote:
I'm no expert on the turn around time for products to go to the printer and come back but four months seems like a long time.

I want it now!!!


Here's my understanding of the situation, at least based on how the DCC World boxed set worked last year (which was the same - limited GenCon release, then full release a few months later). Harley/Joseph/anybody who knows better, jump in and let me know if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure this is the case.

DCC World was printed in China, and I'm guessing Castle Whiterock will be as well. Because of the physical size of the boxes, shipping an entire print run to the U.S. from the printer by air increases the cost immensely. So, after printing, a select few will be shipped to the U.S. by air for GenCon ... and then, the rest literally get loaded on a cargo ship that's sent to the U.S.

Remember the phrase "take the slow boat to China?" Well, it could be "take the slow boat *from* China" as well. It literally takes weeks, if not months, for some cargo ships to get from there to here (there's lots of ports along the way) ... and then the boat has to clear customs, which again, can take weeks. So that's why you're looking at such a long delay.

(And no, I'm pretty sure you just can't order one by air directly from the printer. Somehow, I think Joseph would've offered that option already if that was logistically possible.)

Hope this helps to clarify things.


Can I meet the boat in Oakland? Or Long Beach? I promise to take only one copy :)

BB


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:37 am 
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I for one cannot wait to start mapping this out!!! Sounds like the most ambitious mapping project I've ever taken on so I may have to settle on mapping the juicy'est bits.

Needless to say, this is going to be GREAT! Thanks to Goodman Games for all this fabulous content!

Ben "superfan" Waxman

see everyone at GenCon. Enjoy the tourney maps!!

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 Post subject: Did you get to see Whiterock at GenCon?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:45 am 
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For those who were lucky enough to view and/or purchase Castle Whiterock at GenCon--what's it like? Without spoiling the adventure or villains inside, a review or description of the boxed set (or better pics of whats inside it) would be appreciated.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:14 am 
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It looks AWESOME!

Every time I walked by the booth I eyeballed it. On Sunday I decided that I had to have it. I immediately ran to the nearest comfy chair I could find and tore it open. After partaking in my ceremonial smelling of the new stuff (I can't be the only one out there that loves that new game smell) I looked through all the content and was knocked over by the detail put into this project. This is my first DCC purchase, and I got a few freebies as well. I am sure I will soon own all that I can get my grubby little fingers on.

I will begin running it early next month. I'll let you know how it goes.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:18 am 
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JtotheOSHUA wrote:
It looks AWESOME!

Every time I walked by the booth I eyeballed it. On Sunday I decided that I had to have it. I immediately ran to the nearest comfy chair I could find and tore it open. After partaking in my ceremonial smelling of the new stuff (I can't be the only one out there that loves that new game smell) I looked through all the content and was knocked over by the detail put into this project. This is my first DCC purchase, and I got a few freebies as well. I am sure I will soon own all that I can get my grubby little fingers on.

I will begin running it early next month. I'll let you know how it goes.


Lucky you!!! :shock: :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Did you get to see Whiterock at GenCon?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:56 pm 
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thebax2k wrote:
For those who were lucky enough to view and/or purchase Castle Whiterock at GenCon--what's it like? Without spoiling the adventure or villains inside, a review or description of the boxed set (or better pics of whats inside it) would be appreciated.

It's a pretty substantial boxed set - even bigger than I thought it would be. Exploring the dungeon seems like it would be peeling off the layers of an onion (complete with crying ;) ) - one group has connections to another group, who has connections to another group, and so on.

There are lots of "shortcuts" into the Whiterock. Things like passages that lead to another area of the dungeon. This could spell disaster for PCs - it's posible that low level parties could stumble across a couple of high level areas. There are also secret doors and hidden places everywhere.

The dungeon is huge, with many different locales. There's an underwater area, a demiplane, an arena, ancient gnome cities, and much more.

There's also a lot of easter eggs for people who have collected other DCCs, like tie-ins to other modules.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:23 pm 
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As someone who only contributed a small portion of the boxed set, I have to say, when I saw the real thing...I was mightily impressed. It makes you want to have at least one night each week free. Then you'd be set for the next year or more. :D

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