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 Post subject: 4E lite ?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:32 pm 
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Cold-Hearted Immortal
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Location: Chicago suburbs
Has Goodman Games considered putting together some sort of "4E lite" rules? Something with a focus on the more traditional races and classes, keeping levels more restricted, and presenting more of an "old school" feel to it?

Goodman seems like a good fit since you guys put out so many older-edition type modules and such.

Just a thought.

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Marv / Finarvyn
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DCC RPG playtester 2011, C&C playtester 2003,T&T since 2003,
ADRP Since 1993, OD&D player since 1975

"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
-- Gary Gygax
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
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 Post subject: Re: 4E lite ?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:58 am 
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Not a bad idea. It is something we have talked about. I don't think it's in the cards for the short term, since 4E is still going strong as is. But down the road it might be a good idea.

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 Post subject: Re: 4E lite ?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:24 am 
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I'd buy it.

Anything--anything--to make 4E less combat-centric.

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 Post subject: Re: 4E lite ?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:51 am 
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I soooo want to work on this.

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Co-author: Forgotten Heroes: Fist, Fang, and Song and Scythe and Shroud; Heroes' Handbook: Eladrin; and two finished Goodman projects that haven't been announced yet, with others on the drawing board!


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 Post subject: Re: 4E lite ?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:16 pm 
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I would definitely buy this! I have some board gamers I'm trying to convert and a 4E lite would be right up their alley.

+1 If you can get Erol to do some quasi old-school-meets new edition artwork!


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 Post subject: Re: 4E lite ?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:00 am 
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Making 4E less combat centric is easy- and it's the same way I have done it since my LBB days-

Run fewer combats- or at the least make them much shorter ( Use minus 1/3 or 1/2 monster HP-all weapons are high crit, etc)

IMO D&D is primarily a game about exploration/adventure, and combat is secondary in the overall scope of things- doesn't matter which edition. Put in more traps, skill challenges, chases, puzzles, or other noncombat encounters, and don't worry about tracking XP to the nitty gritty based on combat- dole out roleplaying/good play rewards and/or at certain points, just allow the PCs to level up.

The great thing about 4E is that it gives us a good system for teamwork oriented combat and very little of the "I hit, I miss" combat that can plague earlier versions if the DM is not careful. IN MODERATION, 4E combat is very fun, IMO. Its not fun if your entire sessions are filled with combat or one combat drags on for 4 hours. I used to hate when I was a kid and our D&D sessions were 90% combat/10% "exploration". Thats not D&D to me, and I might as well just play Squad Leader.

EDIT- and I like to make a request for Goodman Games to put in a few less combat encounters in the DCC modules- There are some great traps/puzzles/Skill challenges but I still think a few less combat encounters would be even better (I tend to ignore the non critical ones).

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 Post subject: Re: 4E lite ?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:25 am 
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jeffb wrote:
...but I still think a few less combat encounters would be even better (I tend to ignore the non critical ones).

I've discovered you can also clump them together successfully to make them more exciting. I recently ran Temple of the Dragon Cult and put the roper in the same room as the roof supports. Thereby cut down on the 'one danged thing after another' quotient, and gave both threats more teeth!

Upping the chaos always seems to improve things....


I now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion thread.

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Playing RPGs since 1977 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters - Holds the power to play gnomes at will!

Here Be DCC Monsters...

General Yoros, Warrior, Str 13, Agl 8 (10), Stm 17, Per 13, Int 11, Lck 8; Law, HP 39, AC 17, R+2, F+4, W+2, band/shld, warhammer, longsword, longbow, pitchfork

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 Post subject: Re: 4E lite ?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:37 am 
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Location: Chicago suburbs
My son wants to play 4E but I just can't plow through the rules enough to feel like I can actually run a game for him. Every power seems to link to some rule, and every rule just seems like an exception.

Thinning things out to a few traditional races, a few tradtional classes, and limiting powers to levels 10-12 or so would be wonderful.

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Marv / Finarvyn
DCC Minister of Propaganda; Deputized 6/8/11
Image
DCC RPG playtester 2011, C&C playtester 2003,T&T since 2003,
ADRP Since 1993, OD&D player since 1975

"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
-- Gary Gygax
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
-- Dave Arneson


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 Post subject: Re: 4E lite ?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:55 pm 
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Wild-Eyed Zealot

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:19 am
Posts: 96
Finarvyn & I have also been talking about this at the OD&D boards, for those who are interested. The approach I outline there is probably more appropriate for a homebrew game (i.e., the DIY style OD&D encourages), which might be less appropriate for a Goodman product; among other things, you could write it up in four pages! But I do think that the right way to go would be to strip 4E down to its solid, robust core and then build up again; I'm skeptical that you could get an old-school/lite feeling by taking the entire structure of 4E as a starting point and then writing some modifications. I'd be interested to know what was said in the previous conversations Joe alluded to, and will try to instigate some new ones at Gen Con this year.

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Co-author: Forgotten Heroes: Fist, Fang, and Song and Scythe and Shroud; Heroes' Handbook: Eladrin; and two finished Goodman projects that haven't been announced yet, with others on the drawing board!


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