Goodman Games

Has Goodman Games considered putting together some sort of "4E lite" rules? Something with a focus on the more traditional races and classes, keeping levels more restricted, and presenting more of an "old school" feel to it?

Goodman seems like a good fit since you guys put out so many older-edition type modules and such.

Just a thought.

Not a bad idea. It is something we have talked about. I don't think it's in the cards for the short term, since 4E is still going strong as is. But down the road it might be a good idea.

I'd buy it.

Anything--anything--to make 4E less combat-centric.

I soooo want to work on this.

I would definitely buy this! I have some board gamers I'm trying to convert and a 4E lite would be right up their alley.

+1 If you can get Erol to do some quasi old-school-meets new edition artwork!

Making 4E less combat centric is easy- and it's the same way I have done it since my LBB days-

Run fewer combats- or at the least make them much shorter ( Use minus 1/3 or 1/2 monster HP-all weapons are high crit, etc)

IMO D&D is primarily a game about exploration/adventure, and combat is secondary in the overall scope of things- doesn't matter which edition. Put in more traps, skill challenges, chases, puzzles, or other noncombat encounters, and don't worry about tracking XP to the nitty gritty based on combat- dole out roleplaying/good play rewards and/or at certain points, just allow the PCs to level up.

The great thing about 4E is that it gives us a good system for teamwork oriented combat and very little of the "I hit, I miss" combat that can plague earlier versions if the DM is not careful. IN MODERATION, 4E combat is very fun, IMO. Its not fun if your entire sessions are filled with combat or one combat drags on for 4 hours. I used to hate when I was a kid and our D&D sessions were 90% combat/10% "exploration". Thats not D&D to me, and I might as well just play Squad Leader.

EDIT- and I like to make a request for Goodman Games to put in a few less combat encounters in the DCC modules- There are some great traps/puzzles/Skill challenges but I still think a few less combat encounters would be even better (I tend to ignore the non critical ones).

jeffb wrote:...but I still think a few less combat encounters would be even better (I tend to ignore the non critical ones).

I've discovered you can also clump them together successfully to make them more exciting. I recently ran Temple of the Dragon Cult and put the roper in the same room as the roof supports. Thereby cut down on the 'one danged thing after another' quotient, and gave both threats more teeth!

Upping the chaos always seems to improve things....


I now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion thread.

My son wants to play 4E but I just can't plow through the rules enough to feel like I can actually run a game for him. Every power seems to link to some rule, and every rule just seems like an exception.

Thinning things out to a few traditional races, a few tradtional classes, and limiting powers to levels 10-12 or so would be wonderful.

Finarvyn & I have also been talking about this at the OD&D boards, for those who are interested. The approach I outline there is probably more appropriate for a homebrew game (i.e., the DIY style OD&D encourages), which might be less appropriate for a Goodman product; among other things, you could write it up in four pages! But I do think that the right way to go would be to strip 4E down to its solid, robust core and then build up again; I'm skeptical that you could get an old-school/lite feeling by taking the entire structure of 4E as a starting point and then writing some modifications. I'd be interested to know what was said in the previous conversations Joe alluded to, and will try to instigate some new ones at Gen Con this year.