Goodman Games

On another 3pp website, a company that is sticking with 3.5 (at least for the moment), it was claimed by several posters and even some of the company's representatives that 4e products by 3pp are selling poorly. How is Goodman's 4e products selling?

Here is one of the statements made, "I haven't heard of any 4e third-party products selling in significant numbers,..."

So have Goodman's sales been in "significant numbers"?

The first Forgotten Heroes book is a copper-level Popular Pick at RPG.now, which puts it in the top 14% of sales overall; that's impressive given how little time it's been available. It's number 3 on their hottest items list, which just looks at recent sales.

As the former manager of a gaming store, I still receive Game Buyer magazine. As of GB's last publication, Goodman Games' 4E products occupied ALL the top 5 ranks (by units sold).

Customers go to Paizo to buy PFRPG material. It's a wonder that ANY 4E products sells from their site, so the suggestion that "If it isn't selling at Paizo, it isn't doing well," doesn't hold much weight to me. (And that Goodman's material is among their best selling 4E products just blows me away.)

While I don't have the inside numbers, I'd say that given the recent rounds of licensing announcements, if Goodman is doing well enough to be expanding, their 4E products must be doing at least "okay" and perhaps "very, very well."

When you look at it, there really isn't any competition for 3pp 4E print material. Paizo is out. Necromancer Games is out. Malhavoc is out. Green Ronin is out. Mongoose has 1 book released. 4E = Wizards, Goodman, and PDF publishers.

Save Vs. Death Ray wrote:Customers go to Paizo to buy PFRPG material. It's a wonder that ANY 4E products sells from their site, so the suggestion that "If it isn't selling at Paizo, it isn't doing well," doesn't hold much weight to me. (And that Goodman's material is among their best selling 4E products just blows me away.)

Now who mentioned Paizo?

I might have thrown it out, but if I still have the copy, I'll scan it and upload the image so that it isn't just me anecdotally quoting something most folk don't see.

Save Vs. Death Ray wrote:While I don't have the inside numbers, I'd say that given the recent rounds of licensing announcements, if Goodman is doing well enough to be expanding, their 4E products must be doing at least "okay" and perhaps "very, very well."

When you look at it, there really isn't any competition for 3pp 4E print material. Paizo is out. Necromancer Games is out. Malhavoc is out. Green Ronin is out. Mongoose has 1 book released. 4E = Wizards, Goodman, and PDF publishers.

These are both very good points and are likely indicators that GG is doing just fine.

At the tail end of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro8m68uVjpM

Mr. Goodman himself states that just the pre-orders for the 4E DCC's had already surpassed the sales of the previous couple of years. That's pretty significant.

I don't usually discuss business on these forums, but I will answer enough to say, "4E is doing well for us." 4E is definitely smaller than the launch of 3.0 so many years ago, and people have a valid point in saying it's a smaller "edition launch" overall. But compared to the trends of the last couple years, 4E has definitely caused a significant increase in sales.

In answer to the specific callout that you quoted, "I haven't heard of any 4e third-party products selling in significant numbers", there was a period in the early days of 3.0 where ANYTHING with the d20 logo could sell great numbers. That effect has not been repeated. And many distributors and retailers who were burned by that period are being even more strict with the (limited) pool of GSL goods available. There may be some third party publishers who hoped that the GSL would be their trampoline into the sales stratosphere... but this time around it appears to require quality product, good partnerships, effective marketing, and all the other nuts-and-bolts business basics, GSL or no GSL.

goodmangames wrote:... but this time around it appears to require quality product, good partnerships, effective marketing, and all the other nuts-and-bolts business basics, GSL or no GSL.

You sir are an entirely new class of awesome

I just wish I'd been around during Goodman's 3.5 days as well, it seems I missed out on some great stuff.

Bright side though is I get to be here for Goodman 4E, and thank god! Frankly as much as I love 4e Wotc cannot produce anything approaching a decent adventure and I'm really digging the advertised release list.

Not to mention Cthulhu!!

So, here's to Goodman Games, my heroes

Arawn76 wrote:

goodmangames wrote:... but this time around it appears to require quality product, good partnerships, effective marketing, and all the other nuts-and-bolts business basics, GSL or no GSL.

You sir are an entirely new class of awesome

I just wish I'd been around during Goodman's 3.5 days as well, it seems I missed out on some great stuff.

Bright side though is I get to be here for Goodman 4E, and thank god! Frankly as much as I love 4e Wotc cannot produce anything approaching a decent adventure and I'm really digging the advertised release list.

Not to mention Cthulhu!!

So, here's to Goodman Games, my heroes

Joseph Goodman possesses a truly rare combination of characteristics; a nice guy, true gamer, and great businessman. Long live Goodman Games!

dancross wrote:Long live Goodman Games!

Hear, hear. Huzzah, and all that!

I've been role playing since first edition Star Frontiers. I have tapped every single version of DnD since Basic. I am the poster child of pig-headedness. So much so that when I fell out of ADnD in the mid 90s, I have figured that was the end of it. It took me a while to embrace 3.0/3.5 but when I did, I loved it. My initial fears for 4.0 came partially from my stubbornness. We were planning our own D20 book and 4.0E really put a thorn in our plans. My initial feelings were extremely negative and our plans were to go against it with our own OGL.

Then I played 4ED...and I thought it was neat. Then I played some more...and I realized its strengths. It's different. It’s radically different...but that doesn't mean it’s bad. I am primarily a DM. I have been a DM for 20 years. I can safely say that 4ED is the best DnD edition for DMs. It provides the most freedom, takes stress out of combat, and most importantly, makes the game fun. I hated combat because I had to be responsible for so many damn numbers, rolling dozens of times ever round. I look forward to combat now. Good role-playing comes naturally. I am more excited about writing for 4ed than any other edition.

Now, I can't think of writing for any other system and this new landscape is ripe with possibilities for those willing to look outside of the box.

DiasExMachina wrote:I've been role playing since first edition Star Frontiers. I have tapped every single version of DnD since Basic. I am the poster child of pig-headedness. So much so that when I fell out of ADnD in the mid 90s, I have figured that was the end of it. It took me a while to embrace 3.0/3.5 but when I did, I loved it. My initial fears for 4.0 came partially from my stubbornness. We were planning our own D20 book and 4.0E really put a thorn in our plans. My initial feelings were extremely negative and our plans were to go against it with our own OGL.

Then I played 4ED...and I thought it was neat. Then I played some more...and I realized its strengths. It's different. It’s radically different...but that doesn't mean it’s bad. I am primarily a DM. I have been a DM for 20 years. I can safely say that 4ED is the best DnD edition for DMs. It provides the most freedom, takes stress out of combat, and most importantly, makes the game fun. I hated combat because I had to be responsible for so many damn numbers, rolling dozens of times ever round. I look forward to combat now. Good role-playing comes naturally. I am more excited about writing for 4ed than any other edition.

Now, I can't think of writing for any other system and this new landscape is ripe with possibilities for those willing to look outside of the box.

Huh. Just like my background except when I got back in with 3.x I hated it and only dm'd it because that was where the players where at (a 3 year campaign going from 1 to 28!). When 4E was announced, I really looked forward to it. I sold my entire group on it before it came out. When it came out we started playing right away. We did a sand box campaign at first. A level every session. This approach was the best for everyone in the group. I don't even yearn for the older versions of DnD now.

PeelSeel2 wrote: I don't even yearn for the older versions of DnD now.

Me or my group either!

4E For me is Good I like it allot although I only started Playing D&D in October 2007 while 3.5 was still the big game and i found hmmm for me there both good 4e and 3.5 found character creation in 4th ed easy then 3.5 mainly because the format of writing is easy on me eyes since i have Dyslexia did I spell that write? I mean yes when you look at adventures for 4th they are a lot different a in terms of roll playing etc, etc. But for me as a DM or GM I still follow the old rule.

A Product of Your imagination

And as for easy to run adventures for new players goodmans 4e games are a GODsend or a god.

Easy to read lots of Fun and I dare say Fantastic ARTWORK if its one thing that dose it for Me its Art Work and new monster index is nice as well I say this with tears in my eyes not because I want to make crowd arousing speeches but because my Cat Merlin has just jumped on my knee digging his Sharp claws into me kneeee OWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW! Yes there is blood aww my little Rakshasa


at the london club i atend there was for a while when 4th was relised many many Arguments on our site there drawing swords but sadlyy to my blood thirsty eyes it did not happen and many peopel did not come back due to 4th being the new thing but there was still 3.5 games one i'm still a player in now level 7 palidin good fun and the DM is COOL and down to earth and likes both editions and makes his 4th game more role plaing and epic then number crunching.
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