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 Post subject: Random Questions
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:30 am 
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I looked through ERP, the FAQ and the forum and couldn't find these questions...so if they've been answered before I apologize in advance. :)

1- Page 25, Simultaneous Attacks: The text says, "Handle opting for a simultaneous action as an extra, free attack for the defender. However, once the defender commits to a simultaneous attack, he must carry through with his intended action." Why does the defender get an extra attack here? And, also, what does the "carry through with his intended action" refer to (ie: does this just mean once you decide to attack you must or does this mean you MUST do whatever action you originally planned to do after getting your free attack)?

2- Page 26, Movement: I'm a little confused by this in general. Can a character move a certain distance (X in each battle phase) before his initiative turn? If a character's turn comes up and he is 30 feet away but can only move 8 feet in a battle phase does he have to move for three phases and then attack on the fourth (thus making him act much later in the round)?

3- Page 28, Chart: In the gray boxes with the text "Defender chooses..." shouldn't PDP actually be ADP?

4- No Page, Resilience & Toughness: Maybe I missed a whole section but I can't find the answers to a few important questions regarding these two. First off, how fast do you recover these after you taken "actual damage?" Secondly, once your Toughness reaches negative numbers do you start "bleeding to death" or some such (automatic loss of toughness to -10, checks to stay alive, etc)? The only thing I saw regarding this was the healing skill which allowed you to heal more quickly but I found nothing about how fast you heal resilience or toughness on your own.

So far, those are my only real questions after reading through most of the book. And I'm sure most of them are a failure on my part somehow. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Random Questions
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:32 am 
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Jackal wrote:
1- Page 25, Simultaneous Attacks: The text says, "Handle opting for a simultaneous action as an extra, free attack for the defender. However, once the defender commits to a simultaneous attack, he must carry through with his intended action." Why does the defender get an extra attack here? And, also, what does the "carry through with his intended action" refer to (ie: does this just mean once you decide to attack you must or does this mean you MUST do whatever action you originally planned to do after getting your free attack)?

I don't use this init system, so I'll let someone else answer this.

Jackal wrote:
2- Page 26, Movement: I'm a little confused by this in general. Can a character move a certain distance (X in each battle phase) before his initiative turn? If a character's turn comes up and he is 30 feet away but can only move 8 feet in a battle phase does he have to move for three phases and then attack on the fourth (thus making him act much later in the round)?

In the simple init system I use, each combatant can move one-half of its (Reflexes MRV x 5 feet) in a round and still take an action. So a PC with Reflexes of D8 could move 40 feet and attack, or move 80 feet and take no other action.

Jackal wrote:
3- Page 28, Chart: In the gray boxes with the text "Defender chooses..." shouldn't PDP actually be ADP?

Yes.

Jackal wrote:
4- No Page, Resilience & Toughness: Maybe I missed a whole section but I can't find the answers to a few important questions regarding these two. First off, how fast do you recover these after you taken "actual damage?" Secondly, once your Toughness reaches negative numbers do you start "bleeding to death" or some such (automatic loss of toughness to -10, checks to stay alive, etc)? The only thing I saw regarding this was the healing skill which allowed you to heal more quickly but I found nothing about how fast you heal resilience or toughness on your own.

See p 34--Resilience DP (which, BYW, has been changed to MRV of Resistance + MRV of Endurance + MRV of Willpower) and Toughness DP

[edited to refer to the correct Ability]


Last edited by dunbruha on Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Random Questions
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:23 pm 
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Thanks much, that neatly takes care of questions 3 and 4. :)

By the way, you mentioned the formula for calculating Resilience has been changed but I don't see that in the FAQ...is there some other place for errata I haven't found yet?

Also, is the simple initiative system you use (regarding answers 1 and 2) the one found in the core rules or something you house ruled?

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 Post subject: Re: Random Questions
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:17 pm 
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Jackal wrote:
Thanks much, that neatly takes care of questions 3 and 4. :)

By the way, you mentioned the formula for calculating Resilience has been changed but I don't see that in the FAQ...is there some other place for errata I haven't found yet?

Well, Dan has the final word on this, but several people have expressed concerns of having Arcana included in resilience, as it mixes physical stamina with magical resistance.
See this thread and this thread (see the last post).

It is my understanding that the above formula will be used in the revision, but I guess Dan will let us know.

Jackal wrote:
Also, is the simple initiative system you use (regarding answers 1 and 2) the one found in the core rules or something you house ruled?

Kind of a combination. I just use Reflexes Ability (roll the dice posessed) + Weapon Speed. Highest number goes first.
I'm debating whether to keep including weapon speed, as it's more work for me when I convert creatures...


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 Post subject: Re: Random Questions
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:28 pm 
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Jackal wrote:
I looked through ERP, the FAQ and the forum and couldn't find these questions...so if they've been answered before I apologize in advance. :)

1- Page 25, Simultaneous Attacks: The text says, "Handle opting for a simultaneous action as an extra, free attack for the defender. However, once the defender commits to a simultaneous attack, he must carry through with his intended action." Why does the defender get an extra attack here? And, also, what does the "carry through with his intended action" refer to (ie: does this just mean once you decide to attack you must or does this mean you MUST do whatever action you originally planned to do after getting your free attack)?

For the first part...I do not know either. Not sure why they would get a free attack for delaying when it is the time for them to attack. I do believe that the "carry through with his intended action" means that if they decide to att simultaneously, then they have to stick w/it as you stated first. They can not change to the opting/delay method if the damage is too high.

Jackal wrote:
2- Page 26, Movement: I'm a little confused by this in general. Can a character move a certain distance (X in each battle phase) before his initiative turn? If a character's turn comes up and he is 30 feet away but can only move 8 feet in a battle phase does he have to move for three phases and then attack on the fourth (thus making him act much later in the round)?


I use a simple system based on speed. Speed MRV is the movement limit (d6 = 60 ft, etc). PC starts on the BP that they are supposed to and can move 1/2 MRV of speed and att( or att and then move 1/2 MRV of speed), Move full MRV of speed and not att but get to use ADPs, or double the MRV of speed but no ADPs or attacking are allowed.

So a PC that had a speed of d6 could move 30ft then att (or att and move 30 ft), Move 60 ft and not att but would be able to use ADPs, or move 120 ft (running) and not att or use ADPs.

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 Post subject: Re: Random Questions
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:04 pm 
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Hi there! :D

Jackal wrote:
1- Page 25, Simultaneous Attacks: The text says, "Handle opting for a simultaneous action as an extra, free attack for the defender. However, once the defender commits to a simultaneous attack, he must carry through with his intended action." Why does the defender get an extra attack here? And, also, what does the "carry through with his intended action" refer to (ie: does this just mean once you decide to attack you must or does this mean you MUST do whatever action you originally planned to do after getting your free attack)?


First, it says "Handle opting for a simultaneous action as an extra, free attack for the defender". This is because the attacker is reckless, and that creates an "opportune attack" situation. However, once a defender chooses to take a simultaneous attack, he can't back out of the decision (which means he gets no Active Defense). Otherwise, the defender forgoes the free attack.

Quote:
2- Page 26, Movement: I'm a little confused by this in general. Can a character move a certain distance (X in each battle phase) before his initiative turn? If a character's turn comes up and he is 30 feet away but can only move 8 feet in a battle phase does he have to move for three phases and then attack on the fourth (thus making him act much later in the round)?


Yes, anybody can move in each phase. I usually don't describe movement phase by phase, however, as position is not usually all that important. In other words, still resolve action in order of rank but allow needed movement throughout the round, even if in prior phases.

note: I'm holding a crying baby and typing with one hand...so can't go on with more detail just now...

Quote:
4- No Page, Resilience & Toughness: Maybe I missed a whole section but I can't find the answers to a few important questions regarding these two. First off, how fast do you recover these after you taken "actual damage?" Secondly, once your Toughness reaches negative numbers do you start "bleeding to death" or some such (automatic loss of toughness to -10, checks to stay alive, etc)? The only thing I saw regarding this was the healing skill which allowed you to heal more quickly but I found nothing about how fast you heal resilience or toughness on your own.


p. 32 "Defenses fully refreshed and at 100% after officially escaping or ending combat"
p. 34 "A character is unconscious at zero Toughness. In such a case, he can survive Potential-Harm up to a negative number equal to MRV of Endurance + Resistance ability. Thus, one with Endurance and Resistance totals of 8 will die at -8, and so on..."

8)


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 Post subject: Re: Random Questions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:31 am 
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Thanks for the answers Dan, I appreciate them. And sorry about the crying baby. ;)

The only thing I'm still a little shaky on is movement. Before I get into that though...it seems that even you don't use the system presented in the book, so will that be changed in the upcoming revisions?

Until then however, in case it does come up in my game, would needing to move further than you're able reduce the phase in which you acted (assuming you are tracking movement by phase) or am I just reading that wrong?

Example: Your hero from the book (page 26) with d4 speed can move 40 feet in a round and still act or run 80 feet and take no other action. Breaking this down per phase means he can move 8 feet each phase and still act or run 16 feet and take no other action.

Let's assume he acts in battle phase 2 and his opponent acts in battle phase 3 and they are 17 feet away from one another. Our hero decides to move forward and attack...what happens?

If tracking movement by phase as the book indicates, my assumption is our hero moves 8 feet in phase 3 and moves another 8 feet in phase 4 and can now attack as he is in melee range. Do I have that right or are you saying the "movement by phase" is not even used in combat at all? Meaning our hero can move his full 40 feet and attack all in phase 3.

Sorry for the technical questions but you don't know my group...they WILL ask these things. And no matter what house rules I plan on using, if I can't answer their by the book rules questions the game will be pushed aside before it's even given a shot and I don't want that to happen here. Eldritch has really caught my eye. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Random Questions
PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:24 pm 
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Good eve!

Jackal wrote:
Thanks for the answers Dan, I appreciate them. And sorry about the crying baby. ;)


Thanks, I enjoy answering questions. Also, my boy Aidan was born July 13th, so we've got a little ways to go before he allows us a good night's sleep, but I guess it's part of the job description. :wink:

Quote:
The only thing I'm still a little shaky on is movement. Before I get into that though...it seems that even you don't use the system presented in the book, so will that be changed in the upcoming revisions?


Actually, sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one using the (initiative) system in the book. I rather like it, but then that's to be expected. I don't know that it will be so much changed as better explained, and more options given in the sidebars.

Quote:
Until then however, in case it does come up in my game, would needing to move further than you're able reduce the phase in which you acted (assuming you are tracking movement by phase) or am I just reading that wrong?


Well, let's see if I can create an example. Sir Slowpoke has a Reflexes of D4, granting him 40' per round, or 8 feet per phase. He gets his action after the D20 (special monsters), D12, D10, and D6 folk. Let's say he intends to run off and beat up an adversary 30' away. Assuming nobody with a higher Reflexes rank engaged him in combat, once we get to the D4 phase, it's safe to assume he moved 8' per phase. If nobody had a D20, we skip right to D12 as the first in the round. That means Sir Slowpoke could move 24' before his official action. In that case he wouldn't make it to his adversary AND attack in his phase. So he sprints the rest of the way to his target and readies for battle in the next round. BUT, his movement would be resolved retroactively, in hindsight, once we got to his action. Other creature's actions could have prevented him from making that movement earlier in the round.

But your question was if he tried to move further than he was able. You mean further than 80' in a round? If we only allowed movement starting in his phase, then nobody with a D4 would ever move out of his "square" (the game does not assume battlemats, but you know what I mean).

Note: Sir Slowpoke really isn't all that slow. I'd be interested in feedback as to whether the movements allowed are too kind. It never affected my game either way in any negative way, but I'm curious for opinions.

Quote:
Example: Your hero from the book (page 26) with d4 speed can move 40 feet in a round and still act or run 80 feet and take no other action. Breaking this down per phase means he can move 8 feet each phase and still act or run 16 feet and take no other action.


Right (and I wouldn't allow mixing 16 or 8 feet per phase, to avoid rules confusion).

Quote:
Let's assume he acts in battle phase 2 and his opponent acts in battle phase 3 and they are 17 feet away from one another. Our hero decides to move forward and attack...what happens?


Good question. Battle Phase two corresponds to Reflexes D10. If his opponent acts in phase 3 (D8), and they're 17 feet apart, then...the hero with the D10 Reflexes moves 10' in Phase 2, and then closes in and attacks in phase 3. The GM invokes the "subphase action order" (see page Xx...just kidding!...page 25 of core rules). That means PCs act first (in this case), so our hero attacks. The opponent who acts in phase 3 defends himself and counter attacks. [ note: there is no rule which states that movement beyond 5' in the same phase prevents a full attack, but the GM could rule against split attacks in such a case ].

Rules note: A delayed action (holding off on movement or anything else until one phase lower than normal) grants the creature first attack in the lower phase, regardless of the sub-phase action order (see page 24, second paragraph).

Now, you might ask, if movement is allowed at any time during a round, in any phase, by an creature...why doesn't the creature in phase 3 retreat out of range? The answer is action is resolved in order of Reflexes rank, with movement assumed and settled "retroactively". In other words, the opponent in phase 3 cannot "decide" to move out of the way of the hero's attack before the hero moves and make the decision to attack.

Quote:
If tracking movement by phase as the book indicates, my assumption is our hero moves 8 feet in phase 3 and moves another 8 feet in phase 4 and can now attack as he is in melee range. Do I have that right or are you saying the "movement by phase" is not even used in combat at all? Meaning our hero can move his full 40 feet and attack all in phase 3.


Well, yes...and yes! Let's say your GM didn't really give a damn how far away your opponent was. He just told you..."he's in range, so go hit him". Then your movement didn't matter. But when it starts to matter, like with many opponents or with ranged weapons, movement by phase might start to seem important. Your assumption is right.

Quote:
Sorry for the technical questions but you don't know my group...they WILL ask these things. And no matter what house rules I plan on using, if I can't answer their by the book rules questions the game will be pushed aside before it's even given a shot and I don't want that to happen here. Eldritch has really caught my eye. :)


Understood. Just please explain to them that the wording "each creature may take one action during each battle phase" was under the heading of sub-phase action order, and wasn't supposed to imply a creature gets one action every single phase of a round. Each creature [of the same Reflexes rank] may take one action during [its] battle phase. That's in the FAQ. Otherwise each phase would be the "round", and "phase" would mean nothing.


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 Post subject: Re: Random Questions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:02 am 
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Basically...smoke em if you got em? :)

The only question I have regarding your answers is the PC who acts in Battle Phase 2 has a reflex of d10 as you mentioned. But you said his speed would be 10' per phase. However, I mentioned above that his speed was a d4 (reflexes is for initiative and speed is for movement right?) so shouldn't his movement be 8 feet per battle phase? Which means he would not be able to reach his opponent in time to attack (and according to the rest of your answer would thus have to attack next round and not in a latter battle phase). Correct?

Anyway I don't actually mind the initiative system at all and plan on using it myself. The one problem I have is with movement broken down per battle phase. It would be much simpler to just say each character can move X feet (or run Y feet with no other action) and attack during his battle phase (dropping the fact that it's possible to move in other phases).

That would clear up all the problems with retroactive movement and why didn't the opponent retreat, etc.

The initiative system itself is great (pretty simple, yet still takes weapon speed and character action into account). It's when you go and throw that movement per battle phase in that tosses sand in the gears.

On page 26, just chop off the rest of the movement section starting with, "The maximum distance per battle phase is..." and you've solved all the initiative/movement problems at once. ;)

Seriously though, when the revision comes out, that would be the option I'd most like to see included (just a sidebar like the rest saying "if you don't feel the need for the detail of movement per phase, assume all movement and actions are handled in the character's own battle phase). Or however it would be best to word it. lol

Now, this is assuming I haven't missed some big rules conundrum that arises if you were to use such an option. :D

Edit: Also, I'd like to thank you again for taking the time to answer my questions and to generally make yourself available to the board. My gaming group will finally be trying out Eldritch today and you've (all) been a big help. Thanks also for listening, especially considering the crying baby. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Random Questions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:18 am 
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Jackal wrote:
The initiative system itself is great (pretty simple, yet still takes weapon speed and character action into account). It's when you go and throw that movement per battle phase in that tosses sand in the gears. On page 26, just chop off the rest of the movement section starting with, "The maximum distance per battle phase is..." and you've solved all the initiative/movement problems at once. ;)


That's not a bad idea, and I may just do that. I can't think of any conundrum resulting from that, at least not before my morning coffee. :lol:

Oh, did you notice ranged weapons have no initiative bonus? The reason for that was just "balance" (that dreaded term that makes me sort of queasy)...I felt that the ability to fire arrows at range was advantage enough. I would assume arrows, bolt, and magic "missiles" of all kind occur before movement in any given phase, but still following the sub-phase precedence to make things easy.

I'm really glad you're liking the system, and I'll look forward to your experience in actual play, if you'd care to post it here.

Have you seen the updated and improved character sheet? http://www.goodman-games.com/downloads/ERP-Char-Sheet.pdf

Quote:
Edit: Also, I'd like to thank you again for taking the time to answer my questions and to generally make yourself available to the board. My gaming group will finally be trying out Eldritch today and you've (all) been a big help. Thanks also for listening, especially considering the crying baby. ;)


I'm glad to be here! I'm grateful Goodman Games put this out there, because I really believe ERP is surprisingly different in actual play.


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 Post subject: Re: Random Questions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:07 am 
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Not to intrude on the conversation but my group does use the core rules initiative system. I only changed the movement slightly to reflect more options.

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 Post subject: Re: Random Questions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:37 pm 
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Thanks Dan, I'm glad you liked the movement idea. If nothing else it would make a perfect "sidebar option" like the rest that are so common in Eldritch (I love those by the way, especially how they are mixed in with playtest insight).

And, yup, we picked up the shortened character sheet. I'll be working on my own 2 page sheet sometime soon. It won't have the fancy art but I'll make darn sure it can fit on the front and pack of one piece of paper! ;)

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