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 Post subject: Magic Item questions
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:07 pm 
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Mighty-Thewed Reaver
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Some questions about the material on pages 54-56:

1. Using a magic item. Can any character use any magic item?

2. What is "Draiocht"?

3. In the "Create Magic Fire Sword" ritual, it states that it is a permanent item. What would be the spell points needed and the difficulty of this ritual?

4. On p 56, for the difficulty of creating permanent magic items, it says "2D4 (or target 4)..." What does "target 4" mean?

5. Also, a question on cantrips. on p 53, it says that "a magic user with ability only in Arcanum (no Specializations) can still spend a single spell point to detect active magical emanations." Does this mean that any character can detect magic (because everyone has at least D4 in Arcanum)? Don't seem right to me...


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 Post subject: Re: Magic Item questions
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:50 pm 
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1. Some items (magic sword) can be used by anyone with an arm, while others (wand perhaps) would require knowledge on the part of the user to activate its abilities.

2. Draiocht is modern Gaelic for "magic."

3 & 4. I'm not sure

5. Arcanum is restricted, is it not? (No book in front of me.) Assuming it is, then only those that learn it can "detect magic."


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 Post subject: Re: Magic Item questions
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:09 am 
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4. On page 55 under the heading Permanent magic item, Lets you know that it is the GM's decision on using a target number or a random roll to make the permanent static bonus magic item. So if you wanted to create a magic sword that was plus one, Your GM would then decide if you were rolling against a static number of 4 (target number 4) or the random roll result of 2D4 (Anywhere from a 2 to an 8 ).

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 Post subject: Re: Magic Item questions
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:16 am 
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[read further below] edited because better posts followed :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Magic Item questions
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:56 pm 
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orcface wrote:
1. Some items (magic sword) can be used by anyone with an arm, while others (wand perhaps) would require knowledge on the part of the user to activate its abilities.

I'm certainly down with that, and would go with the traditional: wands, staffs, rods, etc., and scrolls are restricted to characters with rnaks in Arcanum (maybe with more powerful items requiring more ranks and/or specializations?). But some guidance in the book would be helpful.

orcface wrote:
2. Draiocht is modern Gaelic for "magic."

OK. It really comes out of nowhere in the book...

orcface wrote:
5. Arcanum is restricted, is it not? (No book in front of me.) Assuming it is, then only those that learn it can "detect magic."

Huh. It is not listed as restricted on p 12 (there is not an "R" next to it), nor on p 18 (there is not an "R" next to it). However, when I looked today on p 20, there is an "R" next to it. So the notations on p12 and p18 should be corrected.


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 Post subject: Re: Magic Item questions
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:07 pm 
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dancross wrote:
First on page 56 there is a typo: "Creating an item with a permanent bonus requires Specialization in Arcanum, one rank for every plus". It's rather, "Creating an item with a permanent bonus requires one rank up in basic Arcanum for every plus. Therefore, a +1 bonus corresponds to a D4, a +2 to a D6, a +3 to a D8, +4 to a D10, and +5 to a D12.

Noted.

dancross wrote:
The difficulty to create the Magic Fire Sword requires a roll of Arcanum + Specialization + Artificer Mastery if possessed, against a difficulty of 1D6 (or a static target number of 1 to 6 if you wish). As mentioned in the section above, enchantment rituals have a preparation time of one day per rank, and per die, of each magical Effect infused into an item. To create it, the originator of the ritual needs at least 1D4 in Arcanum (which IS a restricted ability), and at least D4 in Primoridal Power Source (specialization). The maximum number of energy points for the item depends on the creator of the spell, not the user of the item, and always equals the creator’s MRV of Arcanum + the designated Magic Source + Artificer Mastery if possessed. I'm thinking a good short cut for magic item energy points might be multiplying it's Effect(s) by x2. Cut's down on figuring out the originator's ADC.

But how does the +1, +2, of a permanent static bonus fit with the "infuse item with Harm Effect at 1D8" listing in the ritual description (which lists the Max Item Charges as "permanent!"?
I think I understand how a charged item works (the more SP put into it, the more charges it has), but I don't see how many SP are required to make a permanent (static) bonus on an item. Could you please explain?


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 Post subject: Re: Magic Item questions
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:31 pm 
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Cold-Blooded Diabolist

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Hello!

Quote:
But how does the +1, +2, of a permanent static bonus fit with the "infuse item with Harm Effect at 1D8" listing in the ritual description (which lists the Max Item Charges as "permanent!"?
I think I understand how a charged item works (the more SP put into it, the more charges it has), but I don't see how many SP are required to make a permanent (static) bonus on an item. Could you please explain?


Making an item permanent costs the same spell points as other enchantment rituals, but usually requires "a component difficult to acquire, whether animal, mineral, or vegetable". The range of all Enchant Effect spells is "object", which means the cost is always based on a roll of Arcanum + relevant Power Source specialization + relevant mastery (if possessed), dropping the lowest die.

So to answer your question (in part), an arcanist who ran across the "Create Magic Fire Sword" ritual would need at least D4 in Arcanum (I'll explain this below), and would roll against a difficulty of 2D4 [edited 7-6-08] rather than the normal vs. 1D6...because the item is being made permanent. Plus he'd be required to get some special component.

What is confusing you, and understandably so, is that the permanent magic item rules only gives details and examples if adding static numbers to your magic items (as opposed to random dice). Throwing in the word "permanent" with the fire sword example was confusing because the ritual lists no static bonus to the sword...only a permanent ability to ignite the blade in magic flames (without any risk of becoming inert when energy points are spent), and deal 1D8 P-Harm.

I'll correct this problem right here:

To make any magic item's effect permanent, the ritual caster must roll vs. the Difficulty Chart on page 56 (rather than vs 1D6 as with regular magic items). The cost of the ritual is the same as any single object or creature spell (roll ADC, drop the lowest die). Remember, failure costs no spell points; it only wastes time and resources. However, permanency rituals require a *special* component as required by the GM, in addition to the regular rules on ritual casting using the Enchant Effect (see page 53, under 'enchantment of items'). An arcanist who seeks to add a permanent "static bonus" to an item, like a +1 to PHarm, or +2 Augment to Reflexes, must possess a specialization in Arcanum, one rank for every plus. That we knew...but...

An arcanist who seeks to make an item's regular Effect permanent is not explained in the book! It is merely inferred, and so I'll correct that now. He must have Arcanum rank following this chart:

An Effect's cumulative MRV / Required Arcanum rank to make Effect Permanent

1-12 / D4
13-18 / D6
19-24 / D8
25-30 / D10
31-36 / D12

So a ritual spell create an item with the Obscure Effect of 2D12, and making it permanent (never going inert), would mean the caster must have an Arcanum score of D8 or more (because it falls within that range of maximum ranks value, or MRV).


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 Post subject: Re: Magic Item questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:33 am 
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dancross wrote:
So to answer your question (in part), an arcanist who ran across the "Create Magic Fire Sword" ritual would need at least D4 in Arcanum (I'll explain this below), and would roll against a difficulty of 2D8 rather than the normal vs. 1D6...because the item is being made permanent. Plus he'd be required to get some special component.

Thanks for the explanation and the additional info! That helps, but I am still not quite there for the difficulty roll for the fire sword example. You say it is 2D8. It looks like 3 ranks of harm are added (1D8), as well as the flaming capability (??D??). According to the chart on p 56, a difficulty of 2D8 is required for a +3 static effect. But how is the difficulty related to the variable 1D8 plus the (unknown) cost of the flaming capability?

Sorry to be so dense, but there is so much to keep track of: casting time, effects, charges, spell points, difficulty...


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 Post subject: Re: Magic Item questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:18 pm 
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Quote:
Thanks for the explanation and the additional info! That helps, but I am still not quite there for the difficulty roll for the fire sword example. You say it is 2D8. It looks like 3 ranks of harm are added (1D8), as well as the flaming capability (??D??). According to the chart on p 56, a difficulty of 2D8 is required for a +3 static effect. But how is the difficulty related to the variable 1D8 plus the (unknown) cost of the flaming capability?
Sorry to be so dense, but there is so much to keep track of: casting time, effects, charges, spell points, difficulty...


The variable D8 is in the range of 1-12 in MRV (see my new chart), so an arcanist must have at least a D4 in Arcanum rank to create or cast the ritual. The variable refers only to the fire harm, since weapons have at most a bonus to harm based on type. The spell cost is based on range alone (object). The object's energy is based either A) on the creater of the ritual's ADC, or B) on x2 the Effect dice, because its quick and easy.


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 Post subject: Re: Magic Item questions
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:49 pm 
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But what would the difficulty be? Or rather, as you stated above that the difficulty is 2D8, how was this calculated?


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 Post subject: Re: Magic Item questions
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:04 pm 
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dunbruha wrote:
But what would the difficulty be? Or rather, as you stated above that the difficulty is 2D8, how was this calculated?


Ah, I see your problem. Okay, I was looking at "target 8" on the table on p. 56, and equated that to a "D8" in my head, but when dealing with non-static permanent Effects...I realized that's not the best way to go about it. So do this: find the Effects MRV, then cross-reference below. That would lower the permanency enchantment ritual of the sword in question from 2D8 to 2D4 [I edited the earlier thread today 7-6-08].

The reason this happened is because in original design I wasn't going to allow permanency on Effects, just on static bonuses of various sorts. I changed my mind but never fully elaborated, so this should clear things up!

SO...with apologizes and thanks for your persistence, here is the fully explained and revised table:

MRV range or static bonus / Minimum Arcanum Rank / Difficulty to cast Enchant Ritual (with permanency)

1-12 effectiveness or +1 / D4 arcanum / vs 2D4 (or target 4)
13-18 effectiveness or +2 / D6 arcanum/ vs 2D6 (or target 6)
19-24 effectiveness or +3 / D8 arcanum/ vs 2D8 (or target 8 )
25-30 effectiveness or +4 / D10 arcanum/ vs 2D10 (or target 10)
31-36 effectiveness or +5 / D12 arcanum / vs 2D12 (or target 12)


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 Post subject: Re: Magic Item questions
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:42 pm 
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dancross wrote:
MRV range or static bonus / Minimum Arcanum Rank / Difficulty to cast Enchant Ritual

1-12 effectiveness or +1 / D4 arcanum / vs 2D4 (or target 4)
13-18 effectiveness or +2 / D6 arcanum/ vs 2D6 (or target 6)
19-24 effectiveness or +3 / D8 arcanum/ vs 2D8 (or target 8 )
25-30 effectiveness or +4 / D10 arcanum/ vs 2D10 (or target 10)
31-36 effectiveness or +5 / D12 arcanum / vs 2D12 (or target 12)

Beautiful. Thanks for the table.

That being said, I really like the idea of rechargable magic items, even swords, armor, rings, etc. So I am thinking of removing the permanency rituals, and just having all magic items rechargable. As the strength of the item increases, the difficulty of recharge increases, using the modified table below (and maybe obtaining some rare components will reduce the difficulty...). The spellcaster must have the same power source Specialization as the item to recharge it.

1-12 effectiveness / vs 2D4 (or target 4)
13-18 effectiveness / vs 2D6 (or target 6)
19-24 effectiveness / vs 2D8 (or target 8 )
25-30 effectiveness / vs 2D10 (or target 10)
31-36 effectiveness / vs 2D12 (or target 12)


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 Post subject: Re: Magic Item questions
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:03 pm 
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Quote:
That being said, I really like the idea of rechargable magic items, even swords, armor, rings, etc. So I am thinking of removing the permanency rituals, and just having all magic items rechargable. As the strength of the item increases, the difficulty of recharge increases, using the modified table below (and maybe obtaining some rare components will reduce the difficulty...). The spellcaster must have the same power source Specialization as the item to recharge it.


Removing the permanency rituals won't have a huge impact on game play, there just won't be a lot of magic "artifacts" to be found in the world. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Magic Item questions
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:20 pm 
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dancross wrote:
Removing the permanency rituals won't have a huge impact on game play, there just won't be a lot of magic "artifacts" to be found in the world. :wink:

Well, there will be some artifacts, but the PCs won't know how to make them. They will be truly wonderous...


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