Citadel of Fire map questions

The Judges Guild returns! Use this forum to discuss Thieves of Fortress Badabaskor, Citadel of Fire, Dark Tower, and other JG products.

Moderator: finarvyn

Post Reply
User avatar
ThickSkullAdv
Hard-Bitten Adventurer
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:22 am
Location: San Jose, CA
Contact:

Citadel of Fire map questions

Post by ThickSkullAdv » Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:38 pm

I know this isn't technically DCC RPG, but I'm going to put it here anyway as it's a Goodman Games product.

I recently picked up the GG reprint of the Judges Guild Citadel of Fire and I have some questions about the map. Curious to hear thoughts if anyone else owns this adventure:
  • Tower Level A, Room 4: it says in the text “ This room has no entrances other than the staircases from the levels above and below”. Except there’s a door listed on map (note: in the original copy, the doors are really hard to see) – is this just map bug?
  • Tower Level A, Room 4 (part 2): the lower staircase seems to go to Tower Level B Room 3. But where does the Other staircase go to? Does it go to Dungeon Level 2 Room 14? If that’s true it a) bypasses level Level 1 entirely (which I suppose is OK) but the problem is the description of that room says: “”Surrounding the fountain is a winding staircase up to the next dungeon level…” (which would mean Dungeon Level 1. There is no staircase indicated on Dungeon Level 1.
  • Dungeon Level Room, Room 3: the map indicates a passage that leads, “To Surface….” That is not shown exiting anywhere on the ourdoor map (the outdoor map just has this underground tunnel leading out forever)
  • Dungeon Level 3, Area 21: There’s another passage leading out “To Surface” – is this the same situation as above that it just leads out forever?
Those are the big Q’s for now.

User avatar
GnomeBoy
Tyrant Master (Administrator)
Posts: 3547
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:46 pm
FLGS: Bizarro World
Location: Left Coast, USA
Contact:

Re: Citadel of Fire map questions

Post by GnomeBoy » Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:12 am

I have two versions of Citadel... Did you get the NTRPG15 version in a grab-bag bundle? That's were I got mine! :mrgreen: My other copy is the 3.5e conversion from 2007.

On Room 4, Tower Level A
Both versions show it differently. The conversion has room 4 split into two sections, each with its own door leading into it from Room 3! It also says there are no entrances other than the staircases!! ...could it have been meant to mean that there is no way to get from the inside to the outside? That's the best guess I've got at the moment.

And I think you're right about the stairs bypassing Dungeon Level One. I'm sure it'd've made sense back in the day, given that Dungeon Level One is a Cavern Level, everyone would have known that Dungeon Level One was not a dungeon level, but a cavern level and the reference to "up to the next level of the dungeon" would lead to a dungeon but not necessarily a Dungeon Level... :wink:


As for the "To the Surface" bits... Thieves of Fortress Badabaskor, which I ran as part of a campaign about 10 years ago, has a similar entry, and it's one of those "left to the Judge" things, so you can place it to suit yourself.
Gnome Boy • DCC playtester @ DDC 35 Feb '11. • Beta DL 2111, 7AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since '77 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.

Link: Here Be 100+ DCC Monsters

bygrinstow.com

User avatar
ThickSkullAdv
Hard-Bitten Adventurer
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:22 am
Location: San Jose, CA
Contact:

Re: Citadel of Fire map questions

Post by ThickSkullAdv » Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:08 pm

GnomeBoy wrote:I have two versions of Citadel... Did you get the NTRPG15 version in a grab-bag bundle? That's were I got mine! :mrgreen: My other copy is the 3.5e conversion from 2007.
I picked up the Goodman Games reprint of the original; it's got some extra Michael Curtis content in the back. That said, after reading this email, I did go pickup the 3.5E remake PDF (Apparently it was only a couple of bucks as driveThru knew I'd already picked up Dark Tower sometime in the past.
GnomeBoy wrote: On Room 4, Tower Level A
Both versions show it differently. The conversion has room 4 split into two sections, each with its own door leading into it from Room 3! It also says there are no entrances other than the staircases!! ...could it have been meant to mean that there is no way to get from the inside to the outside? That's the best guess I've got at the moment.
Interesting theory. After looking at the 3.5 version, I'm going to go with either "one-way doors" or a flat out typo that should've been fixed when they did the 3.5 conversion - although, it seems odd that PCs looking to get into the dungeon levels would need to go up to Tower Level B (through Area A-5), before re-descending through A-4. If I ever run it, I'll probably just make them one-way doors.
GnomeBoy wrote:And I think you're right about the stairs bypassing Dungeon Level One. I'm sure it'd've made sense back in the day, given that Dungeon Level One is a Cavern Level, everyone would have known that Dungeon Level One was not a dungeon level, but a cavern level and the reference to "up to the next level of the dungeon" would lead to a dungeon but not necessarily a Dungeon Level... :wink:
Yeah, there's a bit of loose talk in the adventure about the goblins doing some work, so perhaps that's correct. But that makes it a bit weird from a mapping perspective. So by my math, the most direct route to the First Level (aka the Goblin Level), is in through tower A. Up to Tower B. Down to level 2 (L2-14), and then back up through Level 2 Room 1 which drops you off near Level 1 Room 1? Or, just create an entry in the "To the Surface" tunnels to suit your campaign.

Regardless, thanks for taking a look at it! It's nice to have a 2nd pair of eyes on this.

Cheers!

User avatar
GnomeBoy
Tyrant Master (Administrator)
Posts: 3547
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:46 pm
FLGS: Bizarro World
Location: Left Coast, USA
Contact:

Re: Citadel of Fire map questions

Post by GnomeBoy » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:41 pm

ThickSkullAdv wrote:
GnomeBoy wrote:I have two versions of Citadel... Did you get the NTRPG15 version in a grab-bag bundle? That's were I got mine! :mrgreen: My other copy is the 3.5e conversion from 2007.
I picked up the Goodman Games reprint of the original; it's got some extra Michael Curtis content in the back. That said, after reading this email, I did go pickup the 3.5E remake PDF (Apparently it was only a couple of bucks as driveThru knew I'd already picked up Dark Tower sometime in the past.
GnomeBoy wrote: On Room 4, Tower Level A
Both versions show it differently. The conversion has room 4 split into two sections, each with its own door leading into it from Room 3! It also says there are no entrances other than the staircases!! ...could it have been meant to mean that there is no way to get from the inside to the outside? That's the best guess I've got at the moment.
Interesting theory. After looking at the 3.5 version, I'm going to go with either "one-way doors" or a flat out typo that should've been fixed when they did the 3.5 conversion - although, it seems odd that PCs looking to get into the dungeon levels would need to go up to Tower Level B (through Area A-5), before re-descending through A-4. If I ever run it, I'll probably just make them one-way doors.

...
Yeah, that version with extra stuff by Mr. Curtis is the same one I have. Actually, I got two copies in the bundle (sold the extra one on eBay).

I think one-way doors are the most 'dungeony' answer possible. And it makes the "no entrances" line make some kind of sense (clarifying the simple graphic from the map).

This is a lot like figuring out your first dungeon back in the day, trying to de-code the symbols and text into something playable...! 8)
Gnome Boy • DCC playtester @ DDC 35 Feb '11. • Beta DL 2111, 7AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since '77 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.

Link: Here Be 100+ DCC Monsters

bygrinstow.com

Post Reply