Goodman Games

Let's just say, hypothetically, if you were to have a pool of 6 pre-generated seventh-level PCs to customize a team of 4 XCrawlers from, what sort of characters do you think would make the decision most agonizing?

I'm currently leaning toward the following classifications/roles, fulfilled by the following character types... What do you think?

Arcane Damage: Human Sorcerer 6/Rogue 1 (front end, touch attack damage, possible sneak attack on rays)

Physical Skill Machine: Human Monk 6/Rogue 1 (maneuverability, boss targeting)

Trapfinder: Halfling Rogue 5/Ranger 2 (2 weapon fighting)

Healer/Dealer: Dwarf Cleric 5/Fighter 2 (healing, but secondary melee output)

The Tank: Gnome Paladin 6/Sorcerer 1 (high AC, true strike)

Melee Monster: Human Fighter 6/Cleric 1 (power attack/cleave, minor healing and better saves w/cleric levels).

ynnen wrote:
Arcane Damage: Human Sorcerer 6/Rogue 1 (front end, touch attack damage, possible sneak attack on rays)

The above guy is your Trapfinder/Blaster, you could even go 5Sorc/2Rog If you are worried about Skillpoints.

Deguello wrote:

ynnen wrote:
Arcane Damage: Human Sorcerer 6/Rogue 1 (front end, touch attack damage, possible sneak attack on rays)

The above guy is your Trapfinder/Blaster, you could even go 5Sorc/2Rog If you are worried about Skillpoints.

But then you lose access to 3rd level spells.

Keep it Sorcerer 6/Rogue 1, definitely.

ynnen,

I like the selection. It gives a good mix of classes to choose from.

Although, our group would probably toss the monk right away without agonizing over it (unless he had a great selection of skills that we couldn't pass up).

I like the fact that you gave the rogue some fighting ability. One of my gripes with the rogues is that (sometimes) they often aren't very effective in combat. Sure, backstab is great, but their low hit points don't usually make them fighting material. So, I definitely like the fact that this rogue has 2 levels in ranger. Nice.

I think a lot of people unaccustomed to XCrawl would casually dismiss the monk - but with the very physical nature of many XCrawl events (think obstacle courses, battle of the network stars, puzzles or encounters requiring maneuverability, timing or precision) skills-heavy characters are even more valuable than they might otherwise be in a "standard" dungeon crawl.

I also think the Monk will be the character most likely to get tricked out with XCrawl-specific feats, to add some weight and value to his good physical skills and versatility -- perhaps some Feats that play off team Mojo or provide team-based benefits. I think that may cause folks to pause and reconsider...

Regarding the obstacle courses...these are something that the whole group must navigate (and not just one character)? I'm guessing that is where XCrawl feats will help out - giving benefits to the rest of the group?

I guess I'll find some of this out when I pick up one of the XCrawl books though...

I'm stopping by a comic shop today to browse their selection and take advantage of the Goodman Games 20% off.

I'll probably also participate in the free RPG game day on June 23rd (if I recall correctly, there is an XCrawl book up for grabs).

fathead wrote: But then you lose access to 3rd level spells.

Keep it Sorcerer 6/Rogue 1, definitely.

Gotta ask what 1- 3rd level spells do you just have to have?
and I f you have to have third level spells then a sorc 7 is preferable.

weigh
1 spell, +1 WP save

vs

Evasion --- and double the skill points...and on average HP.


It's not as cut and dry as you might think.. Especially given the fact that you can get stuck without a rogue.

it's a tough call... as a 6th level sorcerer, getting to cast one of these great spells 4x per day is pretty tough to compare to evasion:

Displacement: Attacks miss subject 50%.
Fireball: 1d6 damage per level, 20-ft. radius.
Gaseous Form: Subject becomes insubstantial and can fly slowly.
Haste: One creature/level moves faster, +1 on attack rolls, AC, and Reflex saves.
Lightning Bolt: Electricity deals 1d6/level damage.
Protection from Energy: Absorb 12 points/level of damage from one kind of energy.
Ray of Exhaustion: Ray makes subject exhausted.
Slow: One subject/level takes only one action/round, -1 to AC, reflex saves, and attack rolls.
Stinking Cloud: Nauseating vapors, 1 round/level.
Vampiric Touch: Touch deals 1d6/two levels damage; caster gains damage as hp.

Sure, some are more situational than others - but it opens up the playbook a little... I think the flexibility of being able to cast Haste or Displacement during the right battle is pretty intriguing.

Not to mention, the potential of something like lightning bolt with a minor metamagic rod of empower spell...

It's all about tough decisions, though - that's for sure... If any of the characters are automatically and easily dismissed out of hand, then they're not compelling enough.

Deguello wrote:

fathead wrote: But then you lose access to 3rd level spells.

Keep it Sorcerer 6/Rogue 1, definitely.

Gotta ask what 1- 3rd level spells do you just have to have?
and I f you have to have third level spells then a sorc 7 is preferable.

weigh
1 spell, +1 WP save

vs

Evasion --- and double the skill points...and on average HP.


It's not as cut and dry as you might think.. Especially given the fact that you can get stuck without a rogue.

I guess that depends on what 3rd level spell they hand us...but as a sorcerer, you get to cast that spell several times (and 1 more time if your CHA is high enough).

ynnen pointed out that XCrawl is different than a standard tournament, so you may have some insight that I don't here (so keep that in mind). I see spellcasters as easy ways out of time-wasting combat. I would much rather have access to a 3rd level spell that can do more damage than throw a warrior at an encounter. I guess this is also just my personal preference.

If they're looking to provide an alternative to the higher level rogue character (in other words, for groups not looking to take that character), then it would make sense to do as you say - 5th sorcerer and 2nd rogue.

I would probably take the higher level rogue though, so I'd prefer the sorcerer level be pushed up to give us access to a third level spell.

Also remember of the selections you said only 4 of the above....

So I would rather have my bases covered with multiple personaes able to do the same things ..

You know just in case....
Xcrawls tend to be more lethal... Jsut because the danger factor is amped up... You have people actively working against you... putting you in situations to not succeed(survive)

What about the athlete to play up the crowd?

kingpaul wrote:What about the athlete to play up the crowd?

I struggled with this, and Brendan and I discussed it... I love the Athlete, but its role and significance is easily overlooked by people not as familiar with XCrawl. My fear was people would dismiss it because it is so unlike any of the other characters, they wouldn't feel they could "take a chance" on an unknown like that.

The Athlete doesn't fit neatly into the role of a traditional dungeoncrawl party - he doesn't find traps, he doesn't heal, he doesn't cast magic and he doesn't inflict high melee damage... Because of this, it's easy for someone just glancing at the PCs to overlook him.

The crowd dynamic and physical skills are significant parts of XCrawl, which are the things the Athlete excels at. I guess I'm hoping once folks play XCrawl a few times, or have a blast in the tournament, they'll be able to better appreciate what the Athlete has to offer.

But you are looking at this from the Dungeon crawl side of it only....
There is a whole other side, play up to the crowd.. Wow the men and woo the women.. and your group has none of that.. While they might complete the dungeon, they would probably score low.

It is an option to complete more of it thatn anyone else, but the really memorable players will be the ones who amp up to defeat the DJ with style not just defeat the Encounter..

A few of the characters have a nice phat Charisma score, and several will have ranks in Grandstanding and/or Mugging - a few may even have some special feats tailored to the crowd aspect of XCrawl...

So "Crowd Control" would be represented in the PCs in that regard, but likely not as a PCs sole, lone purpose or role... If the person only managed the crowd, and could not contribute damage output, healing, spell effects, trapfinding, damage mitigation, battlefield manipulation or other key skills, it would be hard to find a spot for them on a roster.

The six proposed roles were pretty broad strokes conceptually - there will be many tweaks, and lots of ways to customize characters to fit within the XCrawl paradigm... skills, spell selection, feats and equipment all help further define their contributions and focus.

Personally, I'd give the tank and melee monster athelete as their backup class instead of sorcerer/cleric as you have now. Buffs their skill selection, give them xcrawl as their first favored sport for more bonuses, lets them tweak one physical stat by 2 as the player critiques the build, and also gives access to sports weapons.

One that worked well for us was Evoker 5/ Rouge 2 (Necro and Trans as forbidden schools) The hiding abilities matched with the massive fire power makes for a great croud pleaser. AKA and out of nowhere so and so appears and casts lightning bolt. We made sure that this guy always had invisibility in all his second level slots

Reverend Allan Hoffman
A bolt out of the blue, or a dagger from behind. Same end result.