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 Post subject: Re: Round 1
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:40 am 
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Celtar wrote:
I will say that in the first round we didn't actually run out of time, we made a choice to stop.


You can choose to stop?

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 Post subject: Re: Round 1
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:29 am 
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jfrenia wrote:
Celtar wrote:
I will say that in the first round we didn't actually run out of time, we made a choice to stop.


You can choose to stop?


Yep. It's a little anti-climactic, but it was a good strategy on the part of the Blood Kings (afterall, the last room usually contributes to more PC deaths...which equals point deductions).

When we staggered into the last room in round 1, Corebrin (our warrior) wobbling at 0 hp, Thorimir had 1 hp, Rootli had 1 hp, and Tanlew had 3 hp. We had given the armor, shield, and knife to Tanlew.

The fight lasted exactly 1 round (resulting in our 1 death for round 1), and the knife skidded away as she fell. Thorimir (with 1 hp, mind you) sized up the situation, and with a John Wayne swagger, walked over and picked up the knife.

Like I said earlier...there is something strangely heroic about being hopelessly outclassed.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:35 am 
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Celtar wrote:
Soon after Tanlew dismissed the purple worm and we went to fight the spinning top of death, Tanlew tried a flame strike on the chain holding it (rolled horrible for damage), and then tried a searing light (rolled well) which dropped the top! Woooohooooo!!!!


It seems like we all had the same idea (regarding the spinning top of death). Where was the key in that room?

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 Post subject: Re: Round 1
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:07 am 
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jfrenia wrote:
Celtar wrote:
I will say that in the first round we didn't actually run out of time, we made a choice to stop.


You can choose to stop?


Yes; however, I think the guidelines say that you still need to finish off another full round after it is announced.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:36 am 
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Blood of Kings

Glad to see that you guys are finally posting. You guys ran such a good third round, I was suprised to not see you on the forums the day after Gen Con.

Quote:
I had a career D&D high in the 3rd round.... Keep in mind that I have been playing since I was about 12 & am 37 now....


I'm glad you had such a fantastic moment. It those precious few moments of perfection in D&D that we remember so dearly.

Mouse :wink:

PS Hey check out my new icon thing on the left. Pretty cool


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 Post subject: Re: Round 1
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:55 pm 
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fathead wrote:
Yep. It's a little anti-climactic, but it was a good strategy on the part of the Blood Kings (afterall, the last room usually contributes to more PC deaths...which equals point deductions).


I'm surprised they allow that; seems like they should make the PCs finish the time or die trying.

"Hey we made the room happy and alive, let's wimp out and advance."

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:56 pm 
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My group made it to the last room with no deaths and everything we needed in round 1 and we finished it with a TPK; I didn't know we could just stop there... just seems cheap to me.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:03 pm 
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Not only does it seem cheap but it was never made aware to us as an option.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:04 pm 
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Well next year in round 1, even if you have an hour left you might as well stop in that last room if you've had no deaths and completed everything to that point. You can only lose points most likely and enough teams make round 2 that you're safe to advance.

<- Still can't believe they allow it... :x

"Hey guys that last hit took me to 1 hp; we'll stop here"

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:11 pm 
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So, the object wasn't really to go into the scary dungeon place and find out what happened to our master, the object was to go into the scary dungeon place and open the door to the last room and call a time out. And groups who were willing to man up were actually punished. Nice


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:23 pm 
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Then again, getting to the last room and actually killing the bad guy would earn you a ton of points.

You're also betting that you're in the "last room" when you pull the plug on your round...or you could be quitting when you see a big scary illusion.

It turned out well for teams this year, but I wouldn't expect this to be a winning tactic in the future. Each tournament module is pretty different from the last.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:27 pm 
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I'd prefer to finish it out, I think each group should go for the full 4 hours... Even if you do deside to fight that last battle, is there a negative to stopping when you have a PC who is ready to die and avoid the penalty for a PC death? In the later rounds I could see it, but in round 1 there's no reason to keep going really at that point, you can probably only hurt your final results.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:31 pm 
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For what it's worth, from all of the years we've been in the tourney, we've never called it quits. Maybe we're just stubborn though. ;)

correction: Umm...yeah...I was wrong. oops. ;)

As Jengenritz pointed out...that tactic doesn't always work in the team's favor.

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Last edited by fathead on Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:33 pm 
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Quote:
is there a negative to stopping when you have a PC who is ready to die and avoid the penalty for a PC death?


That's what the extra round of combat is for...to give both players and critters a chance to swing one more time, maybe getting a lucky kill either way.

That said, there wasn't such a penalty this year, although it was discussed among the Judges. We had considered calling any PCs not yet dead as "down" at -9 hp at the round, which is a mild points penalty, but much less rough than the kill penalty.

Maybe next year we'll change things up again. Given the tournament's history, I'd say that's likely.

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Author: DCC #55: Isle of the Sea Drake, DCC #61: Citadel of the Corruptor, more to come....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:33 pm 
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fathead wrote:
As Jengenritz pointed out...that tactic doesn't always work in the team's favor.


And it shouldn't, I think they should add a penalty to a team that stops without completing the round with time to spare.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:48 pm 
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Yeah, I wouldn't rely on calling uncle. That's a big chance to take because the scoring changes and there are red herrings.

If I recall 2 years ago in round 1, the Glen Eagles got the highest points in round one by taking it to the very last second and was *standing on the boss* when time was called. No one will call you guys quitters.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:14 pm 
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Key point, when time was called ;-) I still wouldn't quit earlier, it just seems wrong! :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:22 pm 
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And points accumulate through all 3 rounds right?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:27 pm 
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Scoring resets every round.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:04 pm 
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Quote:
Scoring resets every round.


Exactly...even if you barely squeaked by to get into round 2, you can still win it all.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:26 pm 
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I would like to point out another thing about, quitting and scoring.

Although it has never really been pointed out (and it has evolved a bit over the years), if a judge was asked the policy on quitting he would tell you. One reason it is not spelled out is exactly that, it's a little cheezy. Truthfully speaking, it seems that most experienced teams know this policy or ask what it is. Every year, at least one team tries to use it for their advantage. Sometimes it may help, somtimes it costs them. There is no way to tell. Its simply a decision they make. One could enter a room, then run out, its not very heroic, but its feesible. Calling quits is almost the same thing.

As for making it to the last room and quitting, that is very difficult tactic. In previous years it was almost immpossible to make it to the end of the round. Rounds just had too many encounters and variables. This year was different. It had fewer encounters, was a bit more linear, and players had a good chance of making it to the end.

Although my knowledge is not all encompassing, (I still know more than most), the only time something close to this (making to the end then quitting) ever happened was when Clan Yeoman quit in the seemingly last encounter of round 3 in "Palace". In reality there was still one more room, but, that was irrelevant cuz they new they didn't have enough resources to make it past the big boss monster. They just did the smart thing and called it, before the fight even began.

I know this doesn't really make it better, but I hope you understand it a little bit better and realize that, their is no way to be sure that using this rule will 100% always be "for the best"

Mouse :?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:41 am 
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Mouse wrote:
One could enter a room, then run out, its not very heroic, but its feesible. Calling quits is almost the same thing.


I don't want to beat a dead horse, but in this years round 1, there was no running out. You either 1) approached the monster; awakening it and you fought it or died 2) stood in the entrance and eventually starved to death. :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:55 am 
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Mouse wrote:
Although my knowledge is not all encompassing, (I still know more than most), the only time something close to this (making to the end then quitting) ever happened was when Clan Yeoman quit in the seemingly last encounter of round 3 in "Palace". In reality there was still one more room, but, that was irrelevant cuz they new they didn't have enough resources to make it past the big boss monster. They just did the smart thing and called it, before the fight even began.


Mouse, are you calling my bluff? ;)

I think what happened is that Jason Little, who is a meticulous drill sergeant...er...um...time keeper, said, "you have 2 minutes left. Do you want to continue or stop here?". Knowing we couldn't finish the combat anyway (we hadn't started the combat yet), we just stopped. If we had the time to finish (resources or not), we probably would have.

I suppose you're right though...it was quitting.

:Fathead kicks the dirt and sulks a bit

In any case, I think this subject has been a little touchy.

Glen Eagles, I definitely see your point. This is the first year that I know of where getting to the final room was actually possible for most teams. So, calling it quits has never been much of an issue until now.

However, the Blood Kings did awesome this year. They called it quits on the last room in the 1st round? Fine. They used it to their advantage and it worked for them. They went on to sweep the tournament this year. Either way, they did well.

So, come on everybody! Group hug.

Let's talk more about the encounters in the tournament. I'm suffering GenCon withdrawal, so I need some good, memorable stories.

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Last edited by fathead on Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:58 am 
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Yeah, and I'm not holding it against any group that did it for sure or lessen any of their accomplishment. It really wasn't a factor in round 2 that I saw.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:04 am 
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jfrenia wrote:
Yeah, and I'm not holding it against any group that did it for sure or lessen any of their accomplishment. It really wasn't a factor in round 2 that I saw.


Alright, cool.

I'd still like to meet you guys sometime. The Glen Eagles are definitely one of the teams that I recognize by name.

Next year, I'll probably run a Wednesday night dungeon crawl again. Your group should drop by.

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