Goodman Games

4th ED and DragonMech.
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Author:  Seben-PistonRager [ Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Like...

Encounter power (Steam, Fire)
INT or DEX vs Reflex, close blast 3
target: each creature in blast
Hit: 2d6+ INT or DEX mod fire damage

So anyone could use the flamebreathers Encounter power, I'm thinking to prevent everyone in a group from picking one up to toss away after the first round of combat, there needs to be some recourse(fuel costs, chance of damage when recharging during short rests, Non-Coglayers having a chance of making a mistake and blowing up in there hands when used, gotta spend Healing surge to recharge(coglayers have ways of preventing this)... ugh too many options.)

But! Coglayers with their greater control could use them to also make at wills attacks.

Flame pulse (at-Will)
"You press gingerly on the Flamebreather's trigger creating a smaller but more distracting burst of flame, distracting those it hits for a moment while they pat themself out."
Standard action (Steam, Fire) Close blast 2
Int vs Reflex
Hit: 1d6+int mod fire damage, and target takes a -1 penalty to AC and Reflex till the End of it's next turn

And for those coglayers that prefered a more "personal touch" things like the Drill steam power can easiliy be converted to a standard weapon, and general weapon based powers can be used as any level of power. Drill based Encounter power that pierces defenses? Buzzsaw based Dailies that rip open armor exposing the creature withins vulnerable naughty bits? Wizards has been setting a good example for things like this with "exotic" weapons getting a Multiclass tree for replaceement powers. So it could be easily taken down that route or the steam power source classes could have special powers just for them.

Mech Jockie powers: Easy... Most of the powers can have "Mech:" or "When in a Mech...." lines added to them.

Also about the "Three at wills" I was thinking something like that but it would be the equivilant of gaining access to a mechs standard attack as opposed to just it's at-will attack. Like a rodwalker could(potentially in the worst situations) use it's arms as a club, and shoot a fireball, so those would be it's (at wills), but it's "standard" attack that a mech jockey gains access to would be Shooting the fireball wands twice as a standard action. Further it's daily power replacement could be shooting all four wands at once, and for an encounter it could... uh...move then fire off it's fireball? it's a magic mech dropping an expeditious retreat like utility power wouldn't be too bad either(at higher levels teleportation would be awesome too.)

So each mech would have it's own set of powers and depending on the class and training(PP's, ED's, Feats, ect...) they could be accessed. but yeah basically what you said. Balancing them for combat will be the hard part.

Wait... why would a rodwalker do fire and necrotic? Hmm... Evil spellcasters making rodwalkers from Forestrati...

Forestrati Rodwalker... attacks ferociously, drops fire and necrotic attacks(which it's highly resistant to) on itself when things are within range for melee, and exchanges claw(instead of club attacks cause they're feral) attacks and evil infused fireballs in melee combat.

Hmmm... good monster with plot/subplot potential an excuse for Mech on mech combat or because they are small for mechs the group could fight it on foot.

Author:  Oaksoul Elite [ Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.

Can't respond in full right now, so I'll respond to what really caught my eye:

1) Wow, Forestrati Rodwalkers sound awesome! I like.
2) I decided to make it fire and necrotic damage because the vulnerability to fire part of the attack sounds like withering and drying up to me - and that is most decidedly necrotic. It fits the zebatulaak, devil-worshiping cults of elves that leveraged infernal powers to survive the lunar rain. It's not so much that the mech itself is evil as that talented mage jockeys can corrupt the magic within.

More later.

Author:  Seben-PistonRager [ Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.

Oh, that makes sense.

Author:  Oaksoul Elite [ Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.

Ok, I'm back and with a chance to review more in-depth.

For refueling a steam breather, the healing surge idea seems good. It might be one argument for coglayers getting above-average healing surges. Although I think you're right that they can circumvent the cost. Another possibility would be to have the option of taking a minor action to give it recharge 6 or recharge 5,6. That reflects an attempt to refuel it while focusing more on combat than the actual goal. Coglayers can again circumvent this. And of course you can't recharge it without the fuel.

Each power source should have its own unique feel - and to some extent WotC is embracing this - primal powers often have a shapeshifting feel, and they recommended an augment mechanic for psionics. I feel that the steam power source could be made unique by giving some powers the recharge keyword. It reflects the pressure building back up to the critical point or the appropriate cooldown occurring or even a just big enough break in the action to refuel. It could even be mid-battle tinkering to readjust the weapons or gizmos. Speaking of which, I embraced this philosophy in trying to make a steam weapon adept paragon path. I'm away from book, so I don't know if I got the name right - but it's that prestige class from steam warriors. Some of it isn't as fully fleshed out as I would have liked. You'll probably be able to tell the central features from the placeholder ones.

A new kind of warrior for a new age
Prerequisites: martial or steam power source

Unrelenting Action: 11th level - When you spend an action point to make an extra attack, you gain a +2 power bonus to attack and damage until the end of your next turn. (+1?)
Unbalancing Threat: 11th level - You fight with new weapons in new ways, foiling your foe's attempt at defense. When you attack a foe, you can also mark them. A marked foe takes the usual -2 to attack rolls that do not include you as a target. Additionally, the target takes a -2 to defense as long as you threaten them. If you end a turn not threatening your mark, the mark ends.
Rapid Recharge: 16th level - Half the cooldown is just to be safe. Getting killed is far from safe. I'll take my chances attacking. Choose one encounter power you know with the weapon keyword. So long as you fight with a steam weapon, this power gains the recharge 6 keyword.


Surprise Angle 11th level attack
Old-fashioned warriors are often thrown off by the spinning teeth of chattersword, buzzaxe, or buzzsaw and how they bounce off armor. You have learned to leverage this to your advantage, getting a second chance when you miss.
Encounter * Steam, Weapon
Standard Action, Melee Weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding a steam weapon.
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength or Intelligence vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Str or Int mod damage
Miss: You may make a basic attack as a free action. You have combat advantage for this attack.

Redline/Push the Limits 12th level utility
You take a moment to build pressure or gear up for the attack in order to unleash devastation.
Encounter * Steam, Weapon
Minor Action, Personal
Effect: Your next attack with a steam weapon gains a +1 power bonus to attack and deals an extra 1[W] damage.

[Insert Name Here] 20th level daily
The jagged wounds of your steam weaponry easily tear open further, making it difficult for your foe to keep fighting.
Daily *Steam, Weapon
Standard Action, Melee Weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding a steam weapon.
Target: One creature
Attack: Str or Int vs. Fort
Hit: 2[W] + Str or Int mod damage plus 5 ongoing damage. As long as the target is taking ongoing damage, it gains vulnerable 5 to weapon damage.
Miss: Half damage and the target gains vulnerable 5 to weapon damage until the end of your next turn.

And now of course we need steam weapons to make this work. After some thought, I think they belong in their own category. So we have simple, martial, superior, and steam weapons. Many of the steam classes get proficiency in their choice of X number of steam weapons. Blanket proficiency in all might be simpler, but I get the feeling that they're all or mostly going to be on par with superior weapons. Like the chattersword is essentially identical to a greatsword but with brutal 1. In fact, most of the chatterblades are brutal 1 or better. Speaking of which, that's a category I came up with: chatterblade. So a chattersword counts as a heavy blade and as a chatterblade, a buzzaxe as an axe and a chatterblade, and a buzzsaw just as a chatterblade. Personally, I would love to play in a game as a warrior with a chatterglaive. I saw a tool like that in a store yesterday - a chainsaw turned into a polearm for cutting down tree branches. How has DragonMech not done this yet? Anyway, the glaive would actually get a lot out of being a chatterblade. Brutal 1 means reroll any 1s for damage. The glaive is 2d4 base damage. That's twice the rerolls. Minimum damage is 4 before mods.

Now, the one problem with the steam weapon adept is that it's a bit more focused on weapons. I don't have anything for hydraulic armor, lobster claws, or any sort of ranged weaponry. I don't have any rules yet for hydraulic armor or lobster claws, so I didn't know how to work it into the class. I was thinking of making the powers more generic and give each a Special line: "You gain an extra benefit depending on the weapon you attack with. Even if you qualify for more than one, you may only gain one benefit at a time." That would also get rid of the need to require a steam weapon: what's the point of using the power if you can't get the main impact? As for ranged weapons, I fear it would have to be a separate paragon path: the steam weapon sniper. It'd be just too hard to unify everything into one coherent paragon path.

Author:  Seben-PistonRager [ Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.

That is actually REALLY good... but I have an issue and a suggestion.

I only have one issue, the Recharge mechanic, It's something I was thinking of using but had a hard time figuring out how to balance a power or set of powers around something not working. It could just be the way I think and someone may figure out how to do it, but I couldn't wrap my head around it.

I was actually thinking about the "chain" weapons(chattersword, buzzaxe... ect) a while back and thinking about making it some ongoing damage(save ends), and maybe a little extra on crits.

I'd imagine it being like...

Chattersword | +2 | 2d6 | Heavyblade,Steam | Brutal 1,Chatter 2

Chatter X: WHen a target is hit by a weapon with the Chatter property target rolls a d20 on a 9 or lower the target takes (X + enhancement modifier)(or maybe X per [W] of the attack) ongoing damage(save ends), a target that is the hit by a critcal hit from a weapon with the Chatter property doesn't roll the d20 to avoid the ongoing damage.

So trade a +1 to hit for a 50% chance of extra damage, seems a reasonable trade and still in flavor with the way chatterswords worked but keeps it viable for higher levels..

Some of the nastier things like the Buzzsaw could be like +0 or +1 proficiency due to their unwieldy nature but be brutal 4 or 5.
So about those suggestions I was thinking of, since most people going into Steam warrior adept are going to be defenders or big meleers anyway focusing on the steam side of it should be the focus.

Rending surge: level 11 - When you spend an action point to make an attack If you hit with the attack target does not get to roll the d20 to avoid the ongoing damage and takes double the normal ongoing damage from the chatter property, if the attack misses the target takes the normal ongoing chatter damage.(to be reworded for multiattack powers...)
other level 11 power feature...crit on a 19-20 with steam weapons...
Brutal teeth: Level 16 - increase ongoing damage from chatter property by 2 and target takes -2 on d20 roll to avoid ongoing damage from chatter property.

and a name for that level 20 power "Open wound" or "Wide gash"

yeah, I'm tired.... other ideas, yeah was thinking a steam sniper PP would make sense for the ranged attacks. Hydrolic armor(by my thinking) would work well as a "mech" that is medium sized or a "magic" enhancement for plate with the other powers as normal.

And the other, more interesting steam weapons like the lobster claw could have the cool feat based multiclass trees to spread some love for them around. Like lobster claws could have grab(with penalties to escape) and immobilize powers... I need to get off my butt and start putting things back together.


Ugh... not enough sleep today, but yeah I like your steam weapon adept.

oh, I had an idea for a rogue PP(or one of those feat trees) "Buzzblade Chirurgeon" uses training in healing to know where to strike for big [W]'s and removing chance of preventing ongoing damage, with bonuses if target of attacks is under an impairing affect. Think, "rouge with steam powered carving knife".

Author:  Oaksoul Elite [ Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.

Recharge doesn't feel like it's that hard to balance. Says the guy who doesn't always balance things well and likes to invent super-awesome stuff. :roll: I was going to say it's not that different from balancing reliable powers, but then I realized that reliable powers tend to be dailies, and recharge is inappropriate for dailies - it effectively turns them into encounter powers.

You know, you're right: chatterblades should have a lower proficiency bonus - I even built that into the flavor text of Surprise Angle (which needs a slightly better name). I like your chatter mechanic. I'd recommend X + enhancement bonus, not X per weapon of attack. That could just get ridiculous. I've seen up to 7[W] damage attack powers. That's just too much. It took me a while to figure out what you meant by the 9 or higher mechanic. It's ok... I'd prefer to keep with a simpler mechanic. Say, the target makes a saving throw after the attack, and if it fails it takes the ongoing damage. Easier to explain, and now you know what to call the roll. That said, I worry that it may turn people off from steam weapons, since every attack will now have something extra added on. On the other hand, 3.5 DragonMech already does that, and we still love it. I guess we might as well keep it true to the setting and please the old fans rather than sell it to 4e converts that never saw the 3.5 version. I'd recommend considering the ongoing damage of chatter weapons occurs only on a critical hit - and upping the typical chatter number. You know, high crit would be another appropriate trait for most chatter weapons.

I love what you came up with for the steam weapon adept features. Clearly you're focusing on the chatterblades. I have no complaint about that.

And while I'm writing:

Chatterglaive / +2 / 2d4 / Heavy Blade, Chatterblade, Polearm, Steam / Brutal 1, Chatter 2

I added in the chatterblade designation I had recommended. It's not actually meant to have both the chatterblade designation and the chatter property. I'm just putting both until we decide on one. The Steam designation is also up for change. This current writeup assumes it's a superior weapon. But if we invent a 4th class of weapons it could be in the steam category. Ie, classes gain proficiency in some combo of simple, martial, superior, and steam weapons. I honestly prefer that one.

Author:  Oaksoul Elite [ Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.

And rough stats for 4e slathem. (Why slathem? It just came to me).

Ability Scores +2 Intelligence, +2 Charisma (High Slathem) or +2 Wisdom (Low Slathem)
Size Medium
Speed 5, swim 6
Vision low-light

Languages common, slathem
Skill Bonuses +2 Arcana, +2 Athletics
Amphibious You have the aquatic keyword and can breathe water as easily as air.
Master Artisan You gain a +2 racial bonus to all skill checks used in creating goods (typically Creation rituals and the construction of alchemical or steam equipment).
Prestidigitation You can use prestidigitation as an encounter power.
Sculptor's Flourish You have the sculptor's flourish encounter power.

Sculptor's Flourish * Slathem Racial Power
With the finesse that can only come from a lifetime of training, you sculpt your attack into a form your foe didn't think possible.

Free Action
Use this power in conjunction with an attack power. (You still use the action normally used for the attack). If the attack is a close or area effect, you can either exclude one square from the area or add one adjacent square to the area. Alternatively, you can increase the range of the attack by one (even if the power is not an area effect).


Slathem Master Sculptor
Prerequisites slathem, 21st level
Benefit When you use your sculptor's flourish power, rather than add or remove one square to the area of effect, you can change the shape of the attack to the same number of contiguous squares in any shape you desire.

Split Spell
Prerequisites 11th level, Dexterity 15
Benefit When you use an area power, you may split the area of effect into two different attacks, so long as both attacks are still in range, the total number of squares effected does not exceed the number affected by the original attack, and the general shape of the attack is roughly the same. (You cannot transform a burst into two lines. In fact, you will likely not be able to split the spell into two perfect squares, but as long as the two "bursts" created are roughly close to square...)

Admittedly, it's a little complicated, and WotC definitely would not approve of some of them (especially Split Spell), but I feel like DragonMech usually does play looser with the rules, trusting DM and player to come to an accord rather than creating inflexible rules. So I think I've captured the spirit of DragonMech.

Author:  Ken Hart [ Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.

I love that you're still doing this! It looks great. I wish I had more time to contribute ideas, too, but alas, time is tight right now with other projects.

Author:  Oaksoul Elite [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.

Ken Hart wrote:
I love that you're still doing this! It looks great. I wish I had more time to contribute ideas, too, but alas, time is tight right now with other projects.

Well thank you. I've still been meaning to work out the mech jockey. It seems to present the biggest conceptual block to me. How can I run a mech without adding in an extra set of hit points...? Maybe take the beastmaster ranger as inspiration. And realize that the mech jockey's own hit points are never relevant to battle. So the mech's hit points and viability ought to be a rough analog of the barbarian...

Author:  Oaksoul Elite [ Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.

So, I was getting some ideas for the 4e steamborg. No mechanics yet, but the basic gist of it. We've agreed that the steamborg is the defender. For it's mark mechanic, I was thinking of something a little unusual - different from the usual "you ignore me and I hit you." The steamborg is basically an unstoppable juggernaut, a grim killing machine comparable to the Terminator. When you ignore him to hit his allies, you draw out the worst of his machine aspect. Mechanically, if you make an attack that doesn't include him while he's marked you, he gains a bonus to damage and defenses. So a steamborg becomes harder and harder to kill the more you ignore him. You better take him out fast.

Similarly, for class features, I feel the theme for the steamborg should be that iron resilience. A bonus to saving throws, a temporary hit point mechanic, stuff that makes a steamborg better able to shrug off a hit. So compared to most defenders thus far, somewhat lower damage potential, higher survivability.

For builds, here's what I've come up with:
  • Strong arm - the "chainmuscle" build if you will, this steamborg uses artificial parts to augment his strength and endurance.
  • augmented - uses tricks like built-in flamethrowers, sudden expulsion of exhaust as a smokescreen, and other gizmos and gadgets. Cogmorph would be a paragon path best suited for this build.
  • I'm not sure now. Usually there's at least three builds. Maybe one for built-in steamguns, allowing for a defender with ranged capability. We need one of those. Maybe has a feature or power that allows a ranged basic attack, charge, and melee basic attack + mark.

Author:  Oaksoul Elite [ Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.

Well, I just homebrewed an adult lunar dragon. I started with an adult white dragon (another brute), altered the abilities, and upped the level. From what I saw using WotC's Monster Builder, level 17 is the highest level for an adult dragon (gold), and lunar dragons canonically rival other dragons in strength, so I chose level 17. Most terrestrial dragons of the same age are weaker. Also, Large is standard size, but lunar dragons tend to be bigger, so I made it Huge.

Adult Lunar Dragon * Level 17 Solo Brute
Huge aberrant magical beast (dragon, lunar) XP 8,000

Initiative +11 Senses Perception +17, darkvision
Form of Madness aura 2; Enemies that start their turn within the aura take 5 psychic damage and a -2 penalty to Will until the start of their next turn.
HP 680; Bloodied 340; see also bloodied breath
AC 29; Fortitude 34; Reflex 29; Will 30
Resist 20 fire, 20 psychic
Saving Throws +5
Speed 6; Fly 7 (clumsy), Overland Flight 10
Action Points 2

* Bite (standard; at-will; melee basic)
Reach 2; +20 vs AC; 2d8+7 damage. This attack deals an extra 1d8 damage against prone targets.
* Claw (standard; at-will; melee basic)
Reach 2; +20 vs AC; 1d10+7 damage and the target is knocked prone.
* Cometfall Fury (standard; at-will; melee)
The dragon makes two claw attacks and a bite attack.
* Breath Weapon (standard, recharge 5,6) * Cold, Necrotic, Radiant
Close blast 5; +18 vs Reflex; 4d6+8 cold, necrotic, and radiant damage.
* Bloodied Breath (free, when first bloodied; encounter) * Cold, Necrotic, Radiant
The dragon's breath weapon recharges, and the dragon uses it immediately.
* Frightful Presence (standard; encounter) * Fear
Close burst 5; targets enemies; +18 vs Will; the target is stunned until the end of the dragon's next turn. Aftereffect: the target takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls (save ends).
* Maddening Bellow (standard; encounter) * Charm, Psychic, Thunder
Close burst 5; +18 vs Will; 2d8+7 psychic and thunder damage, and the target makes a basic attack against an ally as a free action. If there is no ally within range, the target charges its nearest ally.

Alignment Chaotic Evil * Languages Lunar
Skills Athletics + 25
Str 24 (+15) Dex 14 (+10) Wis 18 (+12)
Con 26 (+16) Int 16 (+11) Cha 16 (+11)

EDIT: Reduced the fire resistance and added equal psychic resistance.

Author:  Oaksoul Elite [ Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.

I've got a draft of the steamborg and steam weapons up. Sorry I didn't post it here first. I'll amend that at some point. I figure I'll get feedback sooner at WotC, but good feedback from those who know the setting will be found here. So, I present to you the first draft of the steamborg:

Author:  Oaksoul Elite [ Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.

I figured I'd copy and paste over the steamborg rules, so they're on record here too. Only built to level 1 or so.

Role: defender. Your superhuman strength and toughness allow you to last in combat, and your tendency to enter a killing frenzy when your allies are injured encourages enemies to deal with you first.
Power Source: Steam
Key Abilities: Constitution, Strength, Intelligence. You rely on stamina to uphold all these augmentations, intelligence to design and maintain these augmentations, and augmented strength to hit hard and fast.
Armor Proficiencies: cloth, leather, hide. People don't make plate to fit over limbs of steel.
Weapon Proficiencies: simple melee, simple ranged, choice of three steam weapons
Implements: schemas. You use complex diagrams and technical theory to augment your body. You can use a schema as an implement for your implement attacks. You can also apply the enhancement bonus and properties of a schema to weapon attacks you make with a steam weapon or embedded weapon. If you use a magic schema for a weapon attack, you do not get to use the enhancement bonus or magic properties of the weapon (if any).
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fort, +1 Will

Hit Points at 1st Level: 17 + Constitution score
Hit Points per Level Gained: 7
Healing Surges per Day: 8 + Constitution modifier

Trained Skills: Steam (Int). Choice of 3: Athletics (Str), Dungeoneering (Wis), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Thievery (Dex)

Class Features: Galvanized Wrath, Ironsides, Better Faster Stronger, Alchemist

Galvanized Wrath: Every time you attack an enemy, whether you hit or miss, you can mark it until the end of your next turn. Whenever a marked enemy makes an attack that does not include you as a target, you enter a killing frenzy until the end of your next turn. While the killing frenzy lasts, you gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls and +2 power bonus to damage rolls. Increase this bonus to damage rolls to +4 at 11th level and +6 at 21st level. (The bonuses from killing frenzy apply no matter whom you attack).
Ironsides: While wearing light armor, you gain a +3 bonus to AC and resist 5 against opportunity attacks. Increase to resist 10 at 11th level and resist 15 at 21st level.
Better, Faster, Stronger: Choose your path of enhancement

* Unbreakable - while in a killing frenzy, you can make a saving throw against one effect a save can end at the start of your turn. If successful, the effect immediately ends. If you fail the saving throw, you can still make a saving throw against the effect at the end of your turn.
* Strongarm - the bonus to damage rolls from your killing frenzy instead equals your Strength modifier. Increase to Strength modifier +2 at 11th level and Strength modifier +4 at 21st level.
* Gadgeteer - once a round, while you are in a killing frenzy you may reroll a failed attack roll and keep the new result.

Alchemist: You gain the alchemist feat.


New Skill: Steam(punk?) (Int)
Since I'm designing this with DragonMech in mind, I cannot imagine not having this skill. You can object to it, if you feel so. Just throw it out of your own uses. I won't budge on this.

* Disable Device - as the Thievery skill. Some may complain about redundancy, but I say it counts. I've heard of some people complain about creating a technical-minded character who logically would be good at disabling traps and technical devices, but wouldn't be good at picking pockets. For them, the steam skill is what they should train in. It's kind of like bluff, diplomacy, or intimidate can all be used to get NPCs to help you, but by different methods. Nobody says they should all be rolled into one skill: Socialize.
* Repair - can be used to get broken or disabled devices working again.
* Repair - can be used on a steamborg, warforged, or mech in place of heal to allow use of second wind. In the case of mechs, the Heal skill cannot be used for this purpose.
* Scavenge - find useful/sellable parts in a mechanical wreck.
* Steam Knowledge - a monster knowledge skill for mechs and steampunk goodness.

New Weapons:
Steam weapons are a new category of weapons, as opposed to simple, military, or superior. Power-wise, they should be about on-par with superior weapons. I also introduce a new weapon group: chatterblade. Chatterblades are steam-powered weapons that deal damage via rotating teeth. So buzzsaws, chainsaw swords, and the like. Many steamweapons have an at-will power (most of them are at-will) associated with them. This is something new, and maybe it will be overpowered. I'll need to test it. These at-will powers have the new Fueled keyword. To use powers with the Fueled keyword, you must expend fuel. Fuel will be handled like a consumable (or maybe I'll check AV2 for rules on ammunition). Point is, it's a small augment for one-time use, and you have to pay for it. It's just the weapon rather than the consumable that describes the effect.

Chattersword, +2 proficiency, 1d10 damage, 2-handed, 60 gp, 20 lbs
heavy blade, chatterblade
brutal 1
Power: (at-will, fueled) Free action. Use this power when you hit with this weapon and deal damage. Make a secondary attack vs Fortitude. On a hit, the target takes ongoing 2 damage (save ends).

Buzzaxe, +2 proficiency, 1d12 damage, 2-handed, 60 gp, 18 lbs
ax, chatterblade
high crit, brutal 1
Power: none yet. The 3.5 version lacked a special effect, unlike most steam weapons. Maybe I should remedy that? It seems it would just be the same as the chattersword. Which is ok, I guess. In 3.5 steam weapon adepts got that as a prestige class feature.

Chatterglaive, +2 proficiency, 2d4 damage, 2-handed, 55 gp, 22 lbs
heavy blade, polearm, chatterblade
reach, brutal 1
Power: as chattersword. This is a new weapon, with no history in 3.5. But it makes sense. I mean, I've seen this thing sold in hardware stores for yardwork purposes. It actually does harken back to the general nature of weapons being tools put to new use.

Steam Hammer, +2 proficiency, 2d6 damage, 2-handed, 40 gp, 17 lbs
Power: (at-will, fueled) Free action. Use this power when you attack with this weapon. If the attack hits, it deals an extra [W] damage.

Improved Unarmed Strike (heroic)
Benefit: You can use unarmed strikes with a +2 proficiency bonus.

Design Notes:

Since steamborgs are supposed to be superhumanly tough, I went with higher than average hp, like the warden. I went with below average healing surges like the swordmage to reflect damage to mechanical components requiring more to fix than can be done during a short rest.

I borrowed the implements idea from the assassin and monk classes' use of ki foci. Originally I was going to make them weapon based, but it makes things really tough for the gadgeteer (or else you could build a character with no need for a magic weapon/implement and lacking critical hit bonus damage). Also, as I got to thinking about this class and powers I wanted, some I pictured as just hitting your enemy really hard with a metal fist. I wanted to make that viable.


I'm not writing all of the attacks out in full - just the basic crunch. (So if unspecified, you can assume melee range, 1 target, standard action, etc.). Note that I'm not familiar with designing new class powers, so I could use some help here.


Relentless Blow
Con vs AC
1[W] + Con mod damage and you gain temporary hp = Con mod

Backhand Swipe
Con vs AC
1[W] + Con mod damage and push 1 square

Ejector Fist
Con vs AC
range: melee +1
1[W] + Con mod damage

Crushing Blow
Con vs AC
1[W] + Con mod + Str mod damage


Iron Rush
Con vs AC
1[W] damage and knock prone
can use in place of basic attack when charging

Concealed Weapon
you can draw a weapon as part of this attack. You have combat advantage for this attack.
Con vs AC
1[W] + Con mod damage
Gadgeteer: you can add your Int mod to the damage

Taser Tap
Con vs AC
1[W] + Con mod lightning damage and the target is dazed until the end of your next turn
Gadgeteer: if you have combat advantage for this attack or score a critical hit, you also knock it prone

Backhand Smash
immediate reaction: an adjacent enemy hits you or an ally
2[W] + Con mod daamge and knock prone
Strongarm: you can also slide the target 1 square

Unstoppable Charge
2[W] + Con mod
usable in a charge
deal an extra [W] damage if you were hit by an opportunity attack
Unbreakable: add your Str mod to the damage if you were hit by an opportunity attack
NOTE: Official wording should make it clear that being hit by multiple opportunity attacks does not further increase damage. 1 or 20, you won't be adding more than 1[W]+Str damage.

Eye Laser
ranged 5
Con vs Ref (implement, not weapon)
1d6 + Con mod radiant damage and you gain a +2 power bonus to your next attack roll before the end of your next turn
Gadgeteer: this attack does not provoke Attacks of Opportunity


Galvanized Rush
Con vs AC
usable in a charge
2[W] + Con mod damage (miss: half)
deals +1[W] damage for every Attack of Opportunity that hits you during the charge.

Boiler Burst
immediate reaction: an attack bloodies you or deals damage while you're bloodied
Close burst 1, Con vs Fort (implement attack)
3d6+Con mod fire damage, and the burst creates a zone that is heavily obscured and lasts until the end of your next turn.
Miss: 1d6+Con mod fire damage and the zone

Burst of Speed
Con vs Ref, 3 attacks
1, 2, or 3 targets
1[W] + Con mod damage
Gadgeteer: you can shift 1 square after each attack
Effect: Until the end of your next turn you may make a basic attack as a minor action.

I question the balance of Burst of Speed. Maybe at higher levels that would be appropriate, but for 1st level, that might be a bit much. Maybe the first level version should be shift your speed and make a basic attack at any point along the way. Effect: until the end of the encounter, once a round as a minor action you can make a basic attack. Or maybe if I just cut it to two attacks rather than 3. The bonus damage from CON mod, magic weapon, feats, etc. add for each attack, so a third attack allows room for a fair bit more damage, especially at higher levels. As currently written, it might be a power that you never want to retrain.

Liftoff Uppercut
Con vs AC
3[W] + Con mod damage and you push the target 2 squares plus 1 square vertically. The target then falls.
Miss: half (no push)
This power feels a little awkward and in need of work, but I'm sure you get the idea of what it's supposed to do, and it's such a cool image, smacking them so hard they take off into the air.

Juggernaut Strike
Con vs AC
2[W] + Con mod damage (miss half)
Effect: you gain resist 2 all until the end of the encounter


Iron Berserker
minor action
when hit by an AoO, immediate reaction to push the triggering enemy 1 square

minor action
you gain temp hp = Con mod when hit by AoO
I don't think both this and Iron Berserker should be level 2 dailies. Which (if either) is appropriate for level 2?

encounter (?)
minor action
ignore concealment or total concealment for next attack
higher level versions of this power would allow you to pinpoint invisible creatures or repeat the effect as a minor action for the entire encounter (that would be for a daily power)

Repair Automatons
free, when you use your second wind
spend a second healing surge and regain hp for both
this is a higher level utility power. Based on fluff, I think it should be epic. Is it balanced for an epic level utility power?

Unbreakable Ally
No mere mortal could withstand the punishment you so readily endure. Your allies take comfort in having an unstoppable war machine on their side.
requirement: you must NOT be bloodied
minor action
you gain resist 5 all until you are bloodied, and each time you are hit, allies within 5 squares who can see you gain temp hp = 5+1/2 level
Not a level 2 utility, that's for sure. Probably not even level 6. Is it fine for 10, or should this be a paragon level utility power?


Steam Implant [multiclass steamborg]
Benefit: once per encounter, as a free action, you gain resist 5 against one attack.

Killing Machine [multiclass steamborg]
Once per encounter, you may designate an enemy you hit or miss as the target of this feat. If the target makes an attack that does not include you, your next attack gains a +1 bonus to the attack roll and +2 bonus to the damage roll.

The second one may not be a good idea, or at least, it needs work. I want to give a multiclass option for killing frenzy. Currently, warden is the only multiclass that gives you a mark, and it's just a mark and nothing else. With killing machine I did the reverse, giving the mark's extra benefit without the actual mark. The wording feels awkward, since I didn't have the word "mark" to refer to.

Author:  Oaksoul Elite [ Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.

I've got more of the Steamborg up on the linked page. At this point, it just seems to be too much to repost everything I wrote. I've now basically got all of heroic tier up. There are a few "magic" schemas I'll be posting, but not just yet. I'll save it for when the topic next needs bumping. And when I say "magic" schemas, I mean they provide an enhancement bonus. Most are thoroughly non-magical, barring the schema of the necrotic engine. Yes, I'm bringing back the variant fuel sources as schemas. I've also got the blood engine statted up. Moonstone as a fuel source will be covered by the lunar borg paragon path. I'm really looking forward to the alchemical borg, a paragon path that specializes in doctoring its fuel supply or boiler with all sorts of alchemical items. And then there's the New Age Knight, a paragon path that brings back hydraulic armor. I think it's easier to refluff the steamborg as a guy in a power suit than to create something as awesome as power armor and balance it as a single item.

I still need steamborg feats though - it's the one thing heroic tier is missing. And I'm high and dry on ideas. I've already posted the multiclass feats, so all I have left is an idea for dragonborn steamborgs. Honestly, I think it's another power source for a steamborg, but a racially specific one. And awesome at that. With the Dragonfire Engine feat, a dragonborn can power its engine with its draconis fundamentum, lending elemental might to its steam power. I may wind up retooling it from its current (unpublished) version. Currently it's a feat power that exchanges a level 2 utility power for access. But since the fluff is of drawing from the draconis fundamentum, it would make sense for a dragonborn steamborg to give up dragonbreath for the power. If I do so, I want to make it more awesome, since you're giving up dragonbreath. So I'm going back to the drawing board now.

I welcome suggestions for any steamborg feats. And paragon paths. Currently I have planned:
  • Alchemy Borg
  • New Age Knight
  • Lunar Borg
  • Steam Monster
  • [unnamed], a gadgeteer who focuses on speed
  • necroborg
  • chainmuscle

And then there's stuff I don't have an idea for yet, but I'd like to come up with a concept for:
  • cogmorph
  • a toughness-based steamborg, designed for the unbreakable build
  • another gadgeteer path, one more focused on gizmos than speed. More implements, less weapons

And on the list of items, I need a schema for borgs made with... I forget its name, the fungus-metal from Steam Warriors. I loaned the book and haven't gotten it back yet. It may have been misplaced. But that's definitely unique enough to warrant a magic schema to reflect it.

Author:  Arron9782 [ Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.

Just wondering, is there any news on the DragonMech 2nd Edition coming out soon?

Author:  Seben-PistonRager [ Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.

I'm glad to see that the thread went on for a little while after I disappeared.


Order of business.

1. reread thread.
2. absorb massive quantities of caffeine.
3. revolutionize characters, monsters, and equipment for the setting. (may take longer than 20 minutes)


Author:  Seben-PistonRager [ Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.

So herer's my updated version of the Chattersword and a power!

Two Handed
Steam weapon
Proficiency Bonus +2
Damage 2d6
Properties: High Crit, Chatter
Group: Heavy blade

Chatter property: Weapons with the chatter property deal 1 + enhancement modifier of the weapon in ongoing damage(save ends) or increases ongoing untyped damage by 1, against a target hit by the weapon if the attack also would have hit the targets fortitude defense.

Chatter Strike
Steamborg At-will 1
The teeth of you your weapon digs into your enemy ripping flesh and sinew from bone.
Requirment: You must be wielding a weapon with the Chatter property.
Con vs AC
Hit: 1[W] + Con modifier damage and 2 ongoing damage(save ends)
Level 11:1[W] + Con modifier damage and 4 ongoing damage(save ends)
Level 21: 2[w] + Con modifier damage and 6 ongoing damage(save ends)

The damage probably needs some work but it's a start.

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