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 Post subject: 4th ED and DragonMech.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:34 am 
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Well 4th edition is nearing. Many things have been leaked and with a playable adventure with pregen characters coming soonish, We'll be able to start making the conversion. the setting itself is good, so the most important thing would be the skills, classes, feats, powers and of course THE MECHS.

So I'll have to start going thru the books and finding specific things that will need to be reworked into the very simplified 4th ed style.

The List:

    Coglayer
      Powers
      Source
      Role
    Constructor
      Powers
      Source
      Role
    Steamborg
      Powers
      Source
      Role
    Feats
      Mech based
      Power based
      Setting based
    Spells/Powers
      Steam powers
      Constructor powers(possibly some basic wizard stuff mixed in from PHB)
      Steamborg Parts
    Races
      Coglings
        Racial abilities
        Racial feats
      Setting specific variants
    Mechs
      Designing
      Building
      Buying
      Operating
    Creatures/encounters
      Lunar Dragons
      Lunar Creatures
      Gearforest
      others...
    Equipment
      Armor
      Weapons
      Steamgear
      misc.

Some of this will be fairly obvious but a lot will take a good read thru on the fourth ed rules to even begin to start...


I can see is now... a level 25 Steamborg, and a Mech fighting side by side... as equals, against a Lunar Dragon!

more to come....

PISTON RAGE!

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     Post subject:
    PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:13 am 
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    I think the coglayer and steam powers will require the most work to update. Not sure about mechs...They could potentially be used with only a few changes, I think, but it'd be cool if their info could be simplified in much the same way monsters are being simplified.

    But I don't have the most up to the minute info on 4e, so I could be mistaken.

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     Post subject:
    PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:48 am 
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    I was thinking That steam powers would be the Coglayer powers. Since others (steamborgs and a few PrC's) had minor access to them they would be basic "multiclass gifts"(though we've not gotten much about multiclassing...). I was even thinking a mechanic for steam powers would be good, like a charging ability to power up steam abilities, like one action to start a backpack boiler, and another minor action to build up power(or multiple rounds worth of actions for bigger, badder powers.

    The powers stuff is the biggest reason for wanting to get as much info as possible. Even up to comparing steam powers versus spells and the martial exploits fighters get. and of course the biggest problem would be spreading powers out making the system as simple as possible(and a little less prone to either being almost nothing or OMGWTFBBQ 9 amplifiers on a pilot light!).

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     Post subject: Part 1: The Old
    PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:46 am 
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    Time to compile the things for update....



        Skills
          Dragonmech setting
            New
              Craft mechcraft
              Knowledge Mechs
              Knowledge Steam engines
              Mech pilot
            Old
              Handle animal(for dealing with constructs and clockworks)
        Feats
          Dragonmech setting
            Combine spell
            craft magical construct
            craft powered mech
            craft steam gear
            gearhead
            gearstride
            Mech Fu
            Mech dancer
            Mech rider
            Mech weapon proficiency
            Mechanized combat practice
            Mechidexterious
            Mechwalker
            Moonwatcher
            Natural Pilot
            Seroficitacit's Changes
            Seige weapon proficiency
            Unnatural pilot
          Steam Warriors
            accurate lob
            aerial operation
            ageless
            ambient amplifier
            aquatic operation
            armored skin
            arterial node
            artificial part
            attached weapon
            attuned pilot
            boarding
            bolstered
            city mech familiarity
            coupling
            disabling blow
            dusk runner friend
            engineinsight
            enlarged
            extra steam
            fast rebuild
            gallant commander
            gearman healer
            greater mech adversary
            hands on commander
            hazard killer
            hazard lord
            hazard master
            high grade steel
            humanity retained
            improved animal companion
            improved mech trample
            intuitive infiltrator
            landswalker
            lizard fighter
            lizard lord
            lizard warrior
            mech adversary
            mech part specialization
            metal skin
            overseer
            power source
            powered leap
            pushing the limit
            rust guard
            salvage master
            secrets of steam
            shepherd of the metal soul
            stealthy mech
            steam jack
            steam trigger training
            superior checklist
            terror strike
            under the skin
            wrecker
        Spells
          Dragonmech setting
            New
              animate gears
              clockwork double
              construct friendship
              detect clockworks
              earthrise
              engine masters grasp
              Ferrous soul
              Ironclad
              Rebuild soul
              soulbox
              tick tock knock
              transpose spirit
              vanquish spirit
            Variants
              Summon Natures ally (gear forest creatures)
              gearstride(as tree stride)
              gear shape(as tree shape)
              Diminish gears( as diminish plants)
              control gears(as control plants)
              hold construct(as hold animal)
              clockwork messenger (as animal messenger)
              speak with constructs( as speak with animals)
        steam powers
          Dragonmech setting
            amplifier
            animator
            automator
            billows
            blood pump
            boiler
            cauterizer
            clockwork puppet
            darkness generator
            dehumidifier
            descrambler
            discriminator
            drill
            fin apperatus
            flywheel
            fog generator
            folder
            force generator
            identifier
            image maker
            iron arm
            iron jacket
            light generator
            lobber
            metal ear
            metal leg
            noisemaker
            nozzle
            optical orb
            ranger
            pilot light
            pump
            rotor arm
            scanner
            spark generator
            targeter
            translator
            voice command
            wavemaker

          Steam Warriors
            adamantine spine
            air generator
            artificial liver
            autoforge
            backupengine
            balloon
            bloodhound
            bouncer springs
            clockworck lock
            cogworm cable
            cogworm gear
            cold generator
            cooler
            diffuser
            environmental control unit
            exchanger
            expander
            extender
            fan
            filter
            fuel maximizer
            fuel tank
            gearbox
            hydrolic arm
            icebox
            light prism
            magnet bond
            muffler
            navigator
            necroborg engine
            necroborg harness
            nutrient pack
            piston ram
            randomizer
            refined controls
            release valve
            seal
            self destruct device
            skill box
            skill recorder
            sonic pods
            spellcasting hands
            spring box
            spring winder
            stabilizer
            steamjet
            steamshovel
            steam spigot
            timer
            trap armature
            treads
            trembler
            trigger
            vocalizer
            water generator
            water wheel
            wheels

        Classes
          Dragonmech setting
            New
              Coglayer
                steam powers
                mech weapon prof. (by mech)
                exotic weapon prof (steam weapons)
                integrated parts (combine parts)
                that piece is important(Optional, as stalker ability, faster to detect sabotage)
                machine empathy
              Mech jockey
                Bonus feats
                roll with punches
                Push the envelope
                mech fingers
                patchwork repairs
                hand speed
                extraordinary pilot
              steamborg
                steam engine
                lose self
                metal skin
                steel skeleton
                ageless
                artificial parts
                steam powers
            Variant
              wizard specialist
              cleric (may lose contact with god)
              paladin(may lose contact with god, as cleric)
              Clockwork ranger(alternate animal companions plus skills)
              stalker(rogue variant, new rogue special abilities)
            Prestige classes
              The Anklebiter
              The Assimilated
              The Gearwright
              The Mech Devil
              The Riftwalker
              The Steam Mage
              The Vessel of Dortrak
        Mechs
          Design
          Creation
          Modification
          Combat

        Creatures
          DragonMech setting
            lycantropes
            clockwork puppet
            cogling
            crumble bug
            Dragon, Lunar
            Dronog
            Dusk Devil
            Forestrati
            grease lizard
            iron shambler
            lunar skin stealer
            slathem
            smoking dead
            tortog
            trak trak
            Worm giant





        Hmmm... now I think I'm getting a bit big here... I should figure out how to do the hide thing to collapse the lists...

        _________________
        I've got a bionic ear!

        But, there is no mechanic to support it!


        Last edited by Seben-PistonRager on Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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         Post subject: Placeholder for 4th ED Coglayer
        PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:02 am 
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        Coglayer

        "Didn't like that? Well you won't like this either!"

        Source: Steam
        Role: Leader

        Primary attributes: Int, Dex, Str
        Hit points at first level: 12 + Con score
        Hit points per level: 5
        Surges per day: 8 + Con Mod
        Armor Proficiency: Cloth, Leather, Chain
        Weapon proficiency: Simple Melee

        _________________
        I've got a bionic ear!

        But, there is no mechanic to support it!


        Last edited by Seben-PistonRager on Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:35 am, edited 4 times in total.

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         Post subject: Placeholder for 4th Ed Steamborg
        PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:03 am 
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        Steamborg

        "I like to take advantage of my enemies accute allergy to steel."

        Source: Steam
        Role: Defender

        Primary attributes: Con, Str, Wis
        Hit points at first level: 15 + Con score
        Hit points per level: 6
        Surges per day: 10 + Con Modifier
        Armor Proficiency: Cloth, Leather, Hide, Chain, Scale
        Weapon proficiency: Simple Melee, Martial Melee, Steam Melee

        _________________
        I've got a bionic ear!

        But, there is no mechanic to support it!


        Last edited by Seben-PistonRager on Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

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         Post subject: Placeholder for 4th ED constructor
        PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:04 am 
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        Constructor

        "You over there, and you there. Excellent. Now take this!"

        Source: Arcane
        Role: Controller

        Primary attributes: Int, Chr, Wis
        Hit points at first level: 10 + Con Score
        Hit points per level: 4
        Surges per day: 6 + Con Modifier
        Armor Proficiency:Cloth
        Weapon proficiency: Simple Melee
        Implements: Nut, Screw, Wheel, Pully

        _________________
        I've got a bionic ear!

        But, there is no mechanic to support it!


        Last edited by Seben-PistonRager on Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

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         Post subject: Placeholder for 4th ED Mech Jockey
        PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:20 am 
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        Mech Jockey

        "Too bad I'm not in my mech, this will hurt a lot more."

        Source: Martial
        Role: Striker

        Primary attributes: Dex, Chr, Int
        Hit points at first level: 12 + Con score
        Hit points per level: 5
        Surges per day: 8 + Con Modifier
        Armor Proficiency: Cloth, Leather
        Weapon proficiency: List.

        _________________
        I've got a bionic ear!

        But, there is no mechanic to support it!


        Last edited by Seben-PistonRager on Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

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         Post subject:
        PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:30 am 
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        Ok, might as well start with what should be the easiest bits.

        Power source and Combat role.

        We've got 4 classes, and a couple variants. The variants aren't really different enough to warrant changing their sources or roles. So, I'll just focus on the four setting specific classes.

        Steamborg

        beefy type, usually combat based but I can easily see a stealthy type pop up occasionally(elven most likely).

        Based on the setting the Source is pretty easy to state. Steam! Technology would be a good description too but it's not high tech, it's fantasy steampunk.

        Thinking it over there are really 2 choices that make sense for the Steamborgs role in combat, Defender or Striker, both of which make good sense. as leader makes little sense for something with a class feature that makes a character lose it's personality(though mechanical/logical orders might process it's a bit of a stretch), and without sinking a lot into it a Steamborg wasn't exactly going to be changing the battlefield horribly with his steam powers. For now I'll call it a hybrid Defender/Striker until I can make a more solid decision (or someone can convince me one way or the other.

        Coglayer

        Knowledgeable master crafter that maintain fanciful gadgets that do horrible and wondrous things simultaneously. Builders of Mechs, steam gear and the like.

        Again Steam is the best for the setting as a power source as it's the complete basis of the Coglayers powers. Without steam the coglayer might as well be throwing rocks by hand... instead of his steam powered auto-Catapult!

        The role of the Coglayer is another cause for problems. Good damage dealers, interesting battlefield manipulation abilities, good backup in a mech, interesting and useful support abilities. It's a smattering of everything... that's not terribly helpful... I'll focus on a few abilities.

        A lot of the abilities the Coglayer has are easily made into area effects(or are by default) and do decent damage. Most of the other abilities that get used are generally used in non-combat situations and can be left up to time and money for the most part(silly rituals... I know so little about you...) So for the most part we're looking at a controller. It's like a wizards ability to mess around with with combat so I'll give it a wizards role.

        Constructors

        Specialist wizards that focus on the things the world has to offer now, steamgear, clockwork, and constructs. Control, create, and destroy all are his to do to the metal and stone beasts. They also have the basic abilities and functionalities of a standard wizard...so in short I'll just give Controllers the same role and source as Wizards; Arcane, and controller.

        Mech Jockey

        Dexterous masters of Mechanized combat, and pretty good out of one too. These guys are the drivers that keep massive machines moving along the ruined landscape of highpoint.

        Here I actually have a little doubt on what the source of his abilities are, Martial or Steam. Sure he uses Steam(or manpower, or clockwork, or animated, or undead power sources).... wait a second... it doesn't matter what he drives he's still going to be a badass behind the controls. Martial! it's all in his extensive training, baby!

        Just as equally obvious to me is his natural role in combat, he slips in and slips out, cause if he dies... well who's gonna drive the mech? Striker. But he also has potential to direct the flow of combat, in a mech he uses his mind and body to the fullest moving, dodging, attacking, constanly flicking switches, toggling toggles, pressing buttons, and puling levers, he is king of the multi-taskers. Out of the mech I can certainly see a Mech jockey shout warnings and quick orders to finish off what ever the party is fighting quickly to retreat to the relative safety of the Mech. Afterall you can't only be in your mech.... not until you become assimilated at least...

        Ok conclusion time!

          Coglayer
            Steam
            Controller
          Constructor
            Arcane
            Controller
          Mech Jockey
            Martial
            Striker/Leader
          Steamborg
            Steam
            Defender/Striker

        _________________
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        But, there is no mechanic to support it!


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         Post subject:
        PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:34 am 
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        [sblock=feats]blah[/sblock]


        Hmmm... I believe that this forum can't do the shrinky dinky, hider boxes...


        ok not to waste the post field... i'll talk about skills here... some skills have been compressed and knowledges have had the "knowledge" knocked out of them.... so now it's only religion, instead of knowledge religion.... wooo... saved live 1/8th of a second and is slightly confusing, but should come naturally to us after playing more 4th ED. So... need to rename and/or combine skills.

        DragonMech Skills
        Mech
        Steam Engines
        Pilot

        and possibly something for craft(mechcraft) though I've not seen anything about a craft skill....so it may just be folded into Mech. And possibly fold mech and steam engines into something like "Steam" covering knowledge about steam engines, mechs, and steam powers. Actually I like that idea...but that might leave out clockworks and other mech styles. ... easy comprimise... leave mech alone... and expand the basis of steam engines to include steam powers, and artificial parts all which share the same background.

        Dragonmech skills:
        Mech
        Steam
        Pilot

        _________________
        I've got a bionic ear!

        But, there is no mechanic to support it!


        Last edited by Seben-PistonRager on Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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         Post subject:
        PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:17 am 
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        and i continue the endless ranting and basic trying to get the easy stuff out of the way... up now HP and skills!

        From what has been gathered and compiled in the PHB lite Roles say how many HP characters get.

        Defenders: 15+con score and 6 per level
        Leaders and Strikers: 12+con score and 5 per level
        Controllers: 10+con score and 4 per level

        Course this is mostly a guess based on the minor snippets that have dribbled out. So based on the post I did about assigning role we should get that....

        Coglayer 10+con score and 4 per level
        Constructor 10+con score and 4 per level
        Mech Jockey 12+con score and 5 per level
        Steamborg 15+con score and 6 per level

        and that'll be good enough for now until the PHB comes out.

        Tough part, skills... they've been combined and the number of trained skills has changed.

        rogues who got 8+int mod now get 4 of their choice, and stealth and thievery for free. stealth being a combination of hide and move silently, and thievery being open locks, disable device and slight of hand. so they got 5 skills for free.... on other fronts most other classes get 4 skills, and rangers got 6. so lets break down the walls and start some crunch...

        steamborgs get 4+ skills
        mech jockeys get 4+
        constructors get 2+
        and coglayers get a wooping 8+

        as the normal is 4 we'll normalize to that to start...now for class skill lists.

        Coglayer, constructor and mech jockeys get knowledge mechs as class skill so that'll definantly need to be on their list.

        Coglayer, constructor and steamborg get disable device, but it was folded into Thievery and i'm not a big fan of just giving the classes access to thievery... that being said, I'll probably end up giving the steam skill or some other appropriate skill the ability to deal with mechanical traps. But that may have to wait till the PHB comes out so the rules for it are clearly written.

        All of them get knowledge steam engines as class skills, so the Steam skill from earlier will be good here.

        Coglayers and mechjockeys get mech pilot as a class skill, so they'll get it again.


        Acrobatics, Athletics, Insight, Perception, and Stealth are "universal class skills" so they'll get those too.

        Code:
        Coglayer   | Constructor | Mech Jockey | Steamborg
        ___________|_____________|_____________|____________
        Acrobatics | Acrobatics  | Acrobatics  | Acrobatics
        Athletics  | Athletics   | Athletics   | Athletics
        Insight    | Insight     | Insight     | Insight
        Perception | Perception  | Perception  | Perception
        Stealth    | Stealth     | Stealth     | Stealth
        Pilot      |             | Pilot       |
        Steam*     | Steam       | Steam       | Steam
        Mechs*     | Mechs       | Mechs       |           
                   | Arcane      |             |               
                   |             |             | Heal


        i'll stop it there, because from the PHB light it looks like the classes get 3 skills more than the universals as basic class skills to choose from.

        And due to the sheer nature of the class I feel generous like the rouge getting free skills so I'll throw them a bone and give them Steam and Mechs for free, as it's the real basis of the class.

        and I think I'm ready for bed... this is what I get for working at night...

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         Post subject: Steam powers.
        PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:07 am 
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        Ok, not knowing the powers that will be released for the standard 4th ed classes we'll start with a few theoretics

        Steampowers.

        Originally based on the use of boilers and gears. Some abilities however made their way into the quasi magic zone. most notably, the darkness generator(which never made much sense to me but I'll ignore that.)

        So what I'm thinking is that I should try rebuilding the system from the ground up. So here I go!.

        Ok, first flavor wise, I think having independent boiler systems for each item makes little sense when the use of a central boiler could provide more power. and with the idea I have about the rest of the system more power makes sense.

        In a recent blog by one of the developers they said Time is a precious commodity, and I fully agree with that, and taking that into acount I think the coglayers powers can be even more powerful than the ones released but take more of those precious moments.

        The actions that can be taken in a round are minor, move, standard. And I envision getting about 1.5 to 2.5 times as much power out of steam powers if they basically take 2 rounds to assemble and then use. That's right Assemble, I think keeping a bit of the modularity helps.

        Ok, as an Encounter ability, since that's all you should be needing. the ability to start up the boiler.

        Start boiler
        Coglayer level 1
        With a flick of the wrist a quick nob turn here a quick flip of a switch and a few pumps on the handle at your hip you kick the fire up on your boiler and start to build pressure.
        Encounter * Steam
        Standard Action
        Personal
        Requirement: Must have Boiler equipped.
        Effect: Allows for the use of other steam based powers, and the accumulation of pressure.

        I'm a little weary about the use of points, but it'll work until I find a better way of wording the system.

        Pump Boiler
        Coglayer level 1
        With a few Pumps on the lever at your hip you spray water into your portable boiler raising the pressure.
        At Will * Steam
        Minor
        Personal
        Prerequisite: Must have used Start boiler
        Special: You can only use this ability once per turn.
        Effect: Gain 1 pressure point.

        and some example attack powers like a good old fashioned steam gun

        Powerful Shot
        Coglayer level 1
        With a twist you connect the hose from your boiler to the Steamgun. And fire off a powerful shot.
        At Will * Steam, Steam gun
        Standard
        Target: one creature
        Attack: Ranged vs AC
        Hit:2[W] damage
        Special: Uses 2 pressure points.

        Devistating Shot
        Coglayer level 1
        You level your shot and blast away the force of the shot shattering the bullet and sending fletchettes at the enemy.
        Daily * Steam, steam gun
        Standard
        Target: one creature
        Attack: ranged VS AC
        Hit:5[W] damage
        Miss: 2[W] damage
        Special: Use 3 Pressure points

        Targeter
        Coglayer level 1
        You snap a set of crosshairs onto the device and raise it to your eye, narrowing your attack bettering your aim.
        At will * Steam, steam power
        Move
        personal
        Effect: your next attack with the device is at +2 to hit.
        Special: you can only use this once per attack.


        Hmmm... those are more striker powers... and since a lot of people use steamguns maybe some of this should be made into standard feats... like "Boiler Training". I'll have to think on it some more...[/i]

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         Post subject:
        PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:01 am 
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        After that little think I do think that it should be a feat to use as it is common enough for a lot of people to be able to do it, but not common enough for everyone to get it for free.

        FEAT
        Boiler Training
        Prerequisite: Trained in Steam Engines.
        Effect: You gain the Start Boiler, and Pump Boiler ability.

        And with that as a prerequisite steam weapon proficiency can be based on that...

        Feat
        ChatterSword Training
        Prerequisite: Boiler Training
        Effect: You gain the Chattersword strike ability.


        Chattersword strike
        At will * steam weapon
        Basic attack
        Attack: melee vs AC
        Special: Must have used the Pump Boiler ability in the same round as this ability.
        Hit: 2d8+ str mod, and target takes 2 ongoing damage (save ends)


        A little stronger than the previous version. d8's instead of d6's. and the extra damage effect. I would call that about 50% better than the old version... 2 more average base, and automaticly takes 2 the next round 50% chance of taking 2 the next round, 25% chance 2 more the next... 12.5%... 6.25%... ect... all that for a minor extra power

        Though I could probably add a special that says the chatter sword can do less damage if it's not powered for the round. say 1d8+str mod and no ongoing...

        and since the Chatter sword strike is a basic attack it could/should be able to used by fighter powers(though we don't have the specifics for it) like the one fighter ability we know of Brutal strike.

        6d8+str mod+ 2 ongoing damage(save ends)

        hmm... that does seem a bit powerful...We'll have to see how things combine like that.

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         Post subject: The Manic Majesty of Mechs.
        PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:40 am 
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        Mechs part 1. wherein the basic concepts of Mech building, combat, and space are discussed.

        To start I'll say there will need to be a very nit-picky and intense reading of the current rules for designing and building Mechs. But the overall goal of this should be to turn the current stat block for mechs into something much easier to read and adjudicate. HP, AC, weapons, special attacks and special defenses. The idea being an inexperience crew could get it going and be passable in mech combat(at least against other inexperienced crews) but a trained crew would would be able to take on things in their mechs that they probably wouldn't be able to take on outside their Mech.(like lunar dragons...) So the idea should be for mech combat to be swift and brutal, with one down(or running away cause repairs are easier, and cheaper than a new one...) and one standing, by after a few rounds of combat.

        Size.

        Size is one of the most important things about a mech, the bigger it is the better. a larger mech is capable of holding more(and more powerful) weapons, carry more in it's hold, transport people, ect...

        But anything big enough for more than the pilot will need ample room to move around, and fight should someone board the Mech. *cough* Need Mech layouts! *cough* Cause boarding action is better when you know where you're going....not that there couldn't be variants on a theme but I'm talking basics here people!

        AC and SAVES

        OK! Obviously being as big or bigger than a barn makes it easier to hit but it's not about being hit it's about landing the blow firmly. So while it's easy to touch(low reflex save) it's hard to land a solid blow against the delicate gearing inside thru the thick stone or metal plates (decent AC modified by size). Obviously there is no way to effect a normal mech with a Will save effect(until the assimilated path is worked out, but that's not exactly normal either...) but the pilot and others in the mech may be able to be targeted(will have to work on that rule...). Finally Fort save... I've not seen many attacks based on attacking Fort so whether a high or low save here may be needed or wanted.

        HIT POINTS

        Lot's.... and the bigger it is the more HP it'll have... will have to give a decent breakdown for base HP By size/model/material.....

        WEAPONS

        Most weapons mounted on Mechs are simply MASSIVE versions of the standard weapon. So hopefully they'll have the sizing mechanic spelled out clearly, so I don't have to work to hard on scaling issues... Generally Larger mechs have more weapons and at least one person to operate each weapon, though skilled pilots are often able to fire a weapon as well as move their mechs in combat. The weapons built into Mechs would only need to have basic stats, as Mech Jockeys will end up having better attacks to destroy or hinder their opponents.

        SPECIAL ATTACKS AND DEFENSES

        Some Mechs will have special attacks and/or defenses. For instance a basic level of resistance(elemental and weapon) goes a long way, 5 or 10 points of resistance keeps many abilities from severely damaging Mechs, but with luck and persistence, they may be able to topple it or beat a hole in the side to board it. Also, Many Mechs have special attacks, like a volley of fireballs, or a spray of bullets from an overloaded barrel. They will of course probably need to be daily abilities that the Mechs have and the Mech pilots will be able to use when they are fully trained in the use of the Mech. Other defenses make sense too, like extra stability, or less handholds(silly boarders, you can't climb us!) ect....

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         Post subject: Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.
        PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:31 am 
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        Making Mechs Simple(at least for combat) attempt 1

        I'll start with a very basic Mech... The Bastion.

        Bastion
        Colossal Construct * Mech
        HP 264
        Bloodied 132
        AC 20
        Fort 25
        Reflex 10
        Will -

        Str 30
        Dex 10

        Speed 12 squares( 60 feet)

        Weapons
        Huge Axe * Melee * damage 2d8 + str mod (weapon normally a x3 crit so once the rules are released it'll probably have some other ability on a crit)
        Gargantuan Ballista * range 40 * damage 3d10( again x3 crit so probably something special here..) (additionally possibly changing type from ballista to crossbow)
        Trample * Melee * close burst 1 * damage 4d6( not sure on the wording of close burst. this should catch everything around the base.)

        Stable (Ignore 2 squares of push pull or slide)
        reach 15 (with threatening reach)
        Resist Weapons 10 (per hardness)
        Resist Energy 10(Possibly called "resist all")

        not bad considering there isn't much out yet.
        Could probably use a special ability, something basic or dwarflike... like the ability to ignore a crit and have it count as a normal hit...

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         Post subject: Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.
        PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:11 pm 
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        i think its probably best to treat steam powers as a power source, just like "arcane", "divine" and "martial", and to break them up into per day, per encounter, and long activation style abilities.

        the reason we should make steam powers work like power sources, is because it will really allow it to fit in the 4th edition system, specifically the multiclass system, as you mentioned, in a way that it doesnt currently.

        it will mean that the whole power system will work alot different, but there are going to be ritual powers that combine over time, so the steam powers and building gadgets can largely work the same, even if treated slightly mechanically different.

        how that works exactly will depend heavily on how the ritual spells work, and since that hasnt really been detailed specifically, i think we should wait.


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         Post subject: Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.
        PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:31 pm 
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        That's exactly what I was thinking(and previously posted) the real problem is not knowing the specifics of how some things work. So other than making lists of things that would be good powers for the dragon mech specific classes. it would be hard to make any attempt at balance at anything other than 1st level, and even that would likely just be a guess and/or copy+paste with different flavor text.

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         Post subject: Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.
        PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:36 am 
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        And here we go again! New things are popping out of wizards on a regular basis now. It's not too long till the release of 4th ed and the Wotc Stormtroopers bust down your doors and burn all your 3.0 and 3.5 books and supplements(even the third party stuff). So here we go!

        More things to discuss...

        Ok... first things first... Apparently AC goes up pretty quickly in 4th ed, so that should be maintained for Mechs. High AC is good, very low reflex probably... but that's the nature of a barn on stilts(though I could see a high level power for Mech Jockies that use their reflex for an attack...)

        Powers powers everywhere....

        the list that says how many of what powers a charcter gets and at what level and when and for what they can be traded for better powers...breath... has been released. looks like there is definitely a reason to upgrade, guessing some powers are in general just like earlier powers but better(more damage, control, bigger area... ect...) so that'll be defenantly be something to pay attention to when the book comes out, balance of power and all...

        Spark of inspiration!

        Steam powers = Magic Items! Ok, obviously it's not a direct translation but from how they've described the way magic items work it has a decent chance of coming together nicely... maybe 2 or 3 steam powers per magic item based on power.... Worth looking into as a good way to think about steam powers....

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         Post subject: Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.
        PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:28 am 
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        And another idea from my sleep deprived brain from work...

        Articifial Parts as FEATS!?!?!

        Steamborg gets a bunch for free, and can pick up more if they want, but it's basic tech in the dragon mech world so having an artifical part or two would not be too much of an investment.

        Guess the whole thing would start with a base feat...

        "Internal Micro-Boiler" it would give the ability to get other "artificial part" feats.
        which could do all sorts of things from passive +1's to granting strange and exotic encounter abilities. Like some plates in your chest that shift slightly and launch small barbed darts trailing wire back to your chest, that focuses a built up electric charge down the wire. DON'T TAZE ME BRO! Then the barbs retract, the gears shifting inside the small darts and the whole thing is retracted, as the plates shift back in place.

        that sounds really good as a power, not just a feat... will have to think more about lightning guns.... and guyver cannons...

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         Post subject: Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.
        PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:50 am 
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        Ok... so I've been a little lack on making progress, here so I'll be throwing myself at this again!

        New thoughts. Mechs as templates.

        The classes in the PHB will apparently have 2 basic power sets(ranger has TWF and archery... warlord has int or chr based buffs... fighters sword and board or two handers...) so I'm thinking the same for Dragonmech classes would be good too. And of course the needed paragon paths and eventually epic destinies.

        So... off the top of my head.

        If you can't tell I'm bad with names... so if you have some suggestions let me know.

        Steamborg
        Upgrader(powers based on physical modification)
        Equiper(powers based on gear)
        Coglayer
        Bombardier(ranged attacks with more status effects)
        Piston(melee attacks with more movement effects)
        Mech Pilot
        Bravo(fast moving limit breaking abilities in and out of a mech.)
        Tactician(subtle and purposeful movement to strike with power...)

        I'm so bad with names...


        Anyway, offline I'm starting to compile a good amount of stuff and hopefully it'll start getting to the point where it could be shared.

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         Post subject: Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.
        PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:54 am 
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        Ok, so I've gone thru the books to compile a complete list of feats. 133 total (I hope that's all of them...anyone wanna double check?)

        Some are going to sit on the back burner, because there aren't going to be rules for some things like animal companions yet.

        Some are going to stay race power feats.

        Some will have to be heavily rewritten, others dropped and turned into base powers.

        As work on adjusting mechanics begins more feats may need to be added in the general +1 variety and maybe even more complex things like bonus damage or whatever...stupid book not being out yet for things to compare too...

        Other than that work progresses... been brainstorming variant racial traits for the Dragonmech setting. specially for Coglings and Tik-toks.

        If I haven't made it clear... if someone else wants to contribute or help, they are more than welcome. Encouraged even!

        Edit: also been thinking about monsters a lot too. Minions, swarms, and smaller mechs as two stage encounters( beat the mech then the crew comes out to fight...)

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         Post subject: Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.
        PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:44 am 
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        Seben-PistonRager wrote:
        If I haven't made it clear... if someone else wants to contribute or help, they are more than welcome. Encouraged even!


        I'm waiting until I actually have the 4e books in my hands. :)

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         Post subject: Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.
        PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 6:36 am 
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        That's what I'm doing!

        Speculation and an attempting to get some organization is most of what I'm trying to do.

        I'm a bit 4E crazed... was reading the 4e excerpt within minutes of them being posted...despite being at work...which is when I do a lot of my posting...I like my job(could use more hours but, but that's an economic thing...)

        nice to know people are actually reading this thing though and it's not just bots looking in on me...

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         Post subject: Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.
        PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:46 pm 
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        Seben-PistonRager wrote:
        nice to know people are actually reading this thing though and it's not just bots looking in on me...

        It may be overstating things a bit to say I've been "reading" it. Unlike you, I haven't been keeping up on the the little tidbits of 4e information that come out, so a lot of your things don't make a lot of sense to me yet. :)

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         Post subject: Re: 4th ED and DragonMech.
        PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:47 am 
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        hehe... eh... only 26 days till we get the books!

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