Mech costs help

Medieval fantasy mechs powered by steam, magic, or the labor of a thousand slaves.

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guesty the guest

Mech costs help

Post by guesty the guest »

Well I just picked up my copy of this game and its seems very cool. I just had a few questions about some things that seem to have been left out of the book.

On page 81 of the dragon mech main book, linked weapons are bought up as something that can be added on. However, it does not list any cost for these, in coins, or PUs. I know that it can't possible be free. What are those numbers?

Also there are many examples given of a mech stored in another mech takes up PUs double the size of the one being stored. However, it always says that a size huge mech would take up 8 PUs, this should be 10 right?

These are my only questions for now I guess! Really need to know the cost of linked weapons!
Reese
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Post by Reese »

i think linking a weapon set is a 'for preference' thing for if you buy two weapons of the same type

ie: buy 2 huge steam cannon, link them, and you have linked weapons

i could be entierly wrong, and i'm not going to lok stuff up in the book becasue i should go to sleep now
Namfoodle "Sparklediver" Raulnor
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guesty the guest

Post by guesty the guest »

Well linking the weapons allows for you to fire both with one action, so for something so good there must be some sort of price to pay...
mythfish
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Post by mythfish »

I think I'd let my players link weapons for free assuming someone in the group made a mechcraft roll and maybe had mech weapon proficiency with the particular weapons.

Although with linked weapons you do get the advantage of being able to fire both weapons with a single crewperson, the drawbacks are that both weapons must be aimed at the same target and both weapons must be fired. If you're in a situation where you only have one target you want to destroy, it's not much of a drawback. If you find yourself in a place with multiple targets and multiple gunners, you can still only fire at one target. Also, if you you're in a situation where you simply want to disable your target, having to fire two steam cannons at it may make that goal more difficult.

Whether or not the drawbacks are equal to the advantage would probably depend a lot on your GM. If my players linked weapons, I'd make sure those situations came up once in a while.
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Post by MagusRogue »

i dunno, having to pay twice as much to do the same thing might be a bit much. ammo is costly, after all.
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Guest

Post by Guest »

Well having two weapons fire at one thing could be bad, but on the other hand you could make some very killer combinations. Like hooking up two Gargantuan Javelin Racks, thats 10 attacks with only one attack. Granted reloading could take longer, but you'd be a freaking machine gun everytime the mech fired. Or a double bore puncher, that only takes on crew most of the time. A drawback of only being able to fire both weapons at one target doesn't seem that bad. Heh heh maybe I'm thinking with my mekton zeta mind! I'm mostly just wondering if the cost was left out at all.
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Post by Reese »

i would, personally, rule that melee weapons can't be fire linked because the mechanics of a melee attack are rather different than those of a ranged attack
Namfoodle "Sparklediver" Raulnor
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Post by MagusRogue »

i agree. however, would a chain tentacle count as linked, as they're basically harpoons? I'm suddenly remembering several anime and cartoons of weapons like linked chain tentacles, very evil and very effective...
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Post by Reese »

i always pictured a chain tentacle as being something more whip-like than harpoon like; whipped sideways to entangle or trip an opponent
Namfoodle "Sparklediver" Raulnor
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Guesty the Guest

Post by Guesty the Guest »

Haha, we need some input from the goodman himself! :lol: Yeah some melee weapons I could even see has being linked. Like two swords instead of a hand. Or wolverine like claws coming off the forearm. I just want to know is there an increased cost at all! :?:
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Re: Mech costs help

Post by goodmangames »

guesty the guest wrote:Also there are many examples given of a mech stored in another mech takes up PUs double the size of the one being stored. However, it always says that a size huge mech would take up 8 PUs, this should be 10 right?
I can't believe I overlooked this for so long! You've discovered a prolific error. I originally had Large, Huge, and Gargantuan mechs at 2 PU, 4 U, and 8 PU respectively, lining up with the normal d20 sizing conventions (size Medium = 1 and everything doubling thereafter). You'll see that starting with size Colossal they line up with that continued doubling... 16 x2 = 32 x2 = 64 etc.

But you can't really make any cool mechs with only 2 PU or 4 PU, especially once you factor in crew space. Even Gargantuan mechs at 8 PU are pretty lame. So I went back and increased the PU on the Large, Huge, and Gargantuan mechs to allow for cooler options at the smaller sizes.

I updated this in Table 2-2. Apparently I didn't update it in several other places -- including the explanation of Payload Units on the same page. And nobody else involved in the book noticed it either!

So here's the official errata. Mechs of size Large, Huge, and Gargantuan have payload usage equal to that on table 2-2 on page 72 of DragonMech. But for purposes of the physical space they occupy, treat their "doubled" amount as lining up with the "normal" amounts of 4, 8, and 16 PU. The explanation is that smaller mechs need less superstructure to support their own weight, so there's proportionately more space on the interior. And, of course, this conveniently maintains internal consistency in the game world. (Otherwise, things like Nedderpik's space usage in table 7-2 wouldn't be right!)

Does that help?
guesty the guest wrote:On page 81 of the dragon mech main book, linked weapons are bought up as something that can be added on. However, it does not list any cost for these, in coins, or PUs. I know that it can't possible be free. What are those numbers?
As other people have pointed out in this thread, there are benefits and drawbacks to linked weapons. In my games they never got out of hand so I didn't need to give them a cost. But your question is valid... it can definitely be powerful, and if you're playing with power-gamers I can see how linked weapons could be exploited. You don't want one trigger to fire 50 guns! The ability to fire two weapons at no targeting penalty is roughly equivalent to two feats (Mechwalker + Mechidextrous), though perhaps a little less powerful since you can't necessarily move the mech at the same time, and they have to fire at the same target. If you want to assign a cost, gold pieces probably wouldn't be the way to go, because any power gamer worth his salt can rack them up fast. I'd recommend either a low-powered feat (Linked Weapon Usage: you can fire up to 2 linked weapons at no penalty; each time you take the feat, you can link up another weapon), or some skill synergy (with 5 ranks in Mech Pilot you can fire 2 linked weapons plus another linked weapon for every 5 ranks of Mech Pilot thereafter)... or something along those lines.

Hope that helps.
Joseph Goodman
Goodman Games
www.goodman-games.com
mythfish
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Re: Mech costs help

Post by mythfish »

goodmangames wrote: You don't want one trigger to fire 50 guns!
Another thing to keep in mind when trying to do stuff like this is that whatever a PC can do, an NPC can do too (and probably better). That knowledge alone has kept many players from getting too out of hand. :)
Guesty The Guest

Post by Guesty The Guest »

Thank you Mr.goodman! Heh heh, I see which you mean about the trade offs of linked wepaons. I just wanted to double check it. And no problem on the size thing, heh heh, it doesn't take away from this awesome book in the slightest!

And darn right NPCs can do it better, heh heh. I'll have to keep that in mind... *evil laugh* I should really sign up and register for this forum...
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Post by Reese »

NPC crafters can always do better for the sole reason that NPCs can afford to concentrate on non-combat abilities at the expense of combat viability... (maybe if the PCs could hire death guards... )

and other NPC enemies can have the finds to buy that better equipment becasue, well, they have legitimate in-game money earning abilities ;)
Namfoodle "Sparklediver" Raulnor
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Post by MagusRogue »

besides, npcs dont have to spend time and make rolls either to make things. want the npc to have it, there he goes.
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Reese
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Post by Reese »

haha, not happening

no NPC is going to have (in my world) abilities above and beyond what a character of the same level could be capable of

it will take them just as long to create a mech or do a piece of work as a PC would, and rolls will have to be made and time taken to complete any work

which is not to say an NPC will not be taking 10 or 20 wherever possible ;)
Namfoodle "Sparklediver" Raulnor
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