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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:22 pm 
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No plans for an epic level book, but it might be fun one of these days. :)

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:16 am 
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Okay, here's another question for you: how would directed attacks against the crew work with a mech-sized brilliant energy weapon? If I was a harrier steamjock, I'd get a custom mech fitted with a brilliant energy sword. I mean, no damage to inanimate objects, but swinging it at the cockpit might result in instant crew kills. Seems effective.

Any thoughts or rulings?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 4:24 pm 
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Sword Guy wrote:
Okay, here's another question for you: how would directed attacks against the crew work with a mech-sized brilliant energy weapon? If I was a harrier steamjock, I'd get a custom mech fitted with a brilliant energy sword. I mean, no damage to inanimate objects, but swinging it at the cockpit might result in instant crew kills. Seems effective.

Any thoughts or rulings?


That's a good question. Attacking a smaller mech, you could swing for the cockpit and probably hit somebody... but against a larger mech, you might have a hard time pinpointing where the crew is within the hull. Let's assume for the moment that you can visually identify a target, so you know where to hit. Armor class and hardness are rendered irrelevant by the sword, so it's solely a matter of swiping the target. If it were my game, I'd say you make a normal brilliant energy attack roll against whatever crew member you can see. If you can't see him fully, he may be considered to have concealment, so you'd have a miss chance. If you can't see a crew member at all, treat him as being invisible (50% miss chance). If the brilliant energy weapon mech is just "fishing" by swinging it around inside the enemy mech until it hits something, determine what targets are eligible to be hit and then apply a bulk 50% miss chance. If the weapon passes that first test, determine one random target then give them a second miss chance. If the weapon manages to hit, then he snagged someone... otherwise he swung the weapon around but didn't hit anyone.

Does that help?

There are some other interesting implications here: How are steamborgs affected by a brilliant energy weapon? Since they're part construct, I'd say they should be partially immune. The easiest way might be to give them damage reduction vs. brilliant energy weapons equal to their artifical parts total, so a steamborg with 3 artificial parts would have DR 3 vs. brilliant energy weapons.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 4:40 pm 
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Are constructs immune to Brilliant weapons? *Blinks* That would make living construct types like Warforged even more deadly....

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 10:22 pm 
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Okay, that seems good. How would the miss chances be affected by, say, having brilliant energy grenades or explosive shells? I'm just thinking of how I can add to my already-formidable mech-killing skills. Hey, I could even add merciful and keep everyone alive while I attack!

And I think warforged are affected by brilliant energy weapons, but an iron golem isn't. On the other hand, it's much shorter to list what a warforged isn't immune to than what it is, so maybe they aren't affected. I don't know.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:04 pm 
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On the topic of brilliant energy vs. mechs...
What about an axe with brilliant energy side-swiped through the cockpit area? it would crush everyone inside against the wall....
Probally not as effective, but more likely to hit...

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:43 pm 
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hey joseph, I was just wondering something (and asked the same in my Crumblebug Swarm thread). Howcome crumble bug's rust ability doesn't allow more than one saving throw? I see crumble bugs as annoying relatives to rust monsters, which magical weapons and armor are allowed continuous saving throws to avoid rusting.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:33 pm 
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Another thing.

i was wondering a couple things. What would you have a steam-powered melee weapon be when it's not working? I always ran with the idea of a chattersword being simply a greatsword when it's not on, and a buzzaxe being like a greataxe, but what about buzzsaws?

also, would it be a stretch to say that masterwork steam-powered weapons (including steam rifles and such) would run off clockwork engines, going with the whole 'masterwork is of a greater quality than standard' idea? i guess it would be only thematic, with the exception of rarely (if ever) needing water anymore and them not being as loud, but... what do you think?

Also, would a masterwork steam engine (Either a coglayers or a steamborg's) be clockwork as well, how much would it cost to make it so, and would it have any added bonuses? I'd say a clockwork steam engine for a steamborg would negate the hide penalties, but what for coglayers? +1 on rolls using steam powers attached to said engine?

Also, would a clockwork engine even really need water anymore? I know mech clockwork engines need the water and fuel just to recharge, but what about a hand-held clockwork engine?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:00 am 
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on the construction of mechs...

it occurs to me that most animated mechs would require mechcraft checks beyond the abilities of most spellcasters, even if you found a spellcaster who somehow had mechcraft as a class skill

could a coglayer colaborate with a magic user posessing the appropriate feats to produse an animated mech?

ie: the coglayer designs and over-sees the construciton of the mech, and the magic user takes over at the point where the ritual needs to take place

which of the two characters would have to have which feats for the colaboration to be successful?

admitedly, next to undead mechs, animated mechs ahve the lowest mechcraft DCs, but the mechcraft required for the largest of animated mechs would still require the anowledge and ability of the most dedicated of coglayers, who are not noted for thier magic using ability...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:29 am 
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MagusRogue wrote:
Are constructs immune to Brilliant weapons? *Blinks* That would make living construct types like Warforged even more deadly....


I'm sure WotC must have answered this in errata somewhere, given the preponderance of Warforged in Eberron.... but my guess would be that Warforged and other *living* constructs are affected, since the brilliant weapon description says it ignores "nonliving matter," not "inorganic material." But if you take it that way, then you could potentially say undead aren't affected (they're "nonliving matter"). I'm not sure; this is opening up a can of worms!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:33 am 
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MagusRogue wrote:
hey joseph, I was just wondering something (and asked the same in my Crumblebug Swarm thread). Howcome crumble bug's rust ability doesn't allow more than one saving throw? I see crumble bugs as annoying relatives to rust monsters, which magical weapons and armor are allowed continuous saving throws to avoid rusting.


It makes sense to treat them like rust monsters.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:44 am 
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MagusRogue wrote:
i was wondering a couple things. What would you have a steam-powered melee weapon be when it's not working? I always ran with the idea of a chattersword being simply a greatsword when it's not on, and a buzzaxe being like a greataxe, but what about buzzsaws?


You could probably treat buzzsaws as some sort of axe, depending on the size... that's probably the closest equivalent to the toothed blade.

MagusRogue wrote:
also, would it be a stretch to say that masterwork steam-powered weapons (including steam rifles and such) would run off clockwork engines, going with the whole 'masterwork is of a greater quality than standard' idea? i guess it would be only thematic, with the exception of rarely (if ever) needing water anymore and them not being as loud, but... what do you think?


I think that's a great thematic idea.

MagusRogue wrote:
Also, would a masterwork steam engine (Either a coglayers or a steamborg's) be clockwork as well, how much would it cost to make it so, and would it have any added bonuses? I'd say a clockwork steam engine for a steamborg would negate the hide penalties, but what for coglayers? +1 on rolls using steam powers attached to said engine?


If you take tables 2-13 and 2-16 from DragonMech and work out the typical cost ratio by size, a clockwork mech's labor cost and materials cost averages 2.6x that of a steam powered mech. So you could easily use 2.6x as the multiplier. The standard d20 "masterwork item" rule is +300 gp, so maybe use +300 gp or 2.6x the cost, whichever is more. I agree about negating hide penalties. For coglayers I wouldn't go so far as to give bonuses to rolls, but I'd treat it more like masterwork armor, which simply reduces penalties. Of course, there aren't a lot of penalties (such as armor checks) with steam powers, but maybe each item built onto a clockwork powered engine could have a size value of 1 lower, to reflect the lighter weight due to lack of water pumps, hoses, etc. (By "1 lower," I mean it goes from "Tiny (6)" to "Tiny (5)", not a full increment lower.)

MagusRogue wrote:
Also, would a clockwork engine even really need water anymore? I know mech clockwork engines need the water and fuel just to recharge, but what about a hand-held clockwork engine?


For a handheld clockwork engine, you could just require a Strength check to rewind it -- maybe once a day it has to be rewound with a DC 20 Str check, or something along those lines.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:53 am 
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Reese wrote:
on the construction of mechs...

it occurs to me that most animated mechs would require mechcraft checks beyond the abilities of most spellcasters, even if you found a spellcaster who somehow had mechcraft as a class skill

could a coglayer colaborate with a magic user posessing the appropriate feats to produse an animated mech?

ie: the coglayer designs and over-sees the construciton of the mech, and the magic user takes over at the point where the ritual needs to take place

which of the two characters would have to have which feats for the colaboration to be successful?

admitedly, next to undead mechs, animated mechs ahve the lowest mechcraft DCs, but the mechcraft required for the largest of animated mechs would still require the anowledge and ability of the most dedicated of coglayers, who are not noted for thier magic using ability...


Yes, collaboration is definitely possible. The designer must have the necessary Craft Item feats, since he basically has to know how to build a magic item, as well as the Mechcraft skill, since he also has to know how to build a mech... so he's probably multiclassed a little. But the person who casts the spells and performs the rituals at the end could be someone different. You might want to require a collaborative skill check at each stage (per the PHB, you make a skill check against DC 10 to see if you can help the other person)... so the wizard makes a Mechcraft skill check to help the coglayer plan it, then the coglayer makes, say, a Spellcraft or Knowledge (arcana) check to assist in the rituals. I'd do it as something along those lines.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:44 pm 
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*grins* is it too late to add stuff for handheld clockwork engines into steam warriors? I think your responces would work awesome as official materials.

I like the idea of clockwork engines reducing the size points by 1. that's a good overall benefit.

+300 for clockwork engines, eh? Then what about upgrading a steamborg's engine to masterwork? unless i'm missing it somewhere, you never actually gave prices for steam engines. would a steamborg or coglayer simply pay 300 gp to make their engines to masterwork (and thus clockwork)?

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 Post subject: masterwork clockwork engines
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:54 pm 
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As for rewinding the clockworks I would simply assume a similar procedure as for clockwork mechs; hook up to a small steam engine for a short period, such as, oh, the 1 hour of maintenance time the coglayer must spend to maintain his steam powers.


Last edited by Raptor on Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Brilliant energy weapons
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:55 pm 
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Actually, undead are unaffected by brilliant energy weapons, it says so specifically in the weapon description.


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 Post subject: Two unrelated questions
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 12:19 pm 
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Mech space/reach
Are the space/reaches listed for mechs correct? A colossal mech only occupies a 15'x15' space and had 15' reach, while a colossal monster occupies a 30'x30' space and has 30' reach? I feel like this question has been answered here somewhere before, but I couldn't find it.

Targeting crew members
If I understand correctly, within 100 feet, an attacker can automatically target any visible crew members without making a spot check. This seems too easy. Except in special circumstances, the pilot will always be at least partially visible (so he can see to pilot) and even with concealment bonuses it's way easier to take out the pilot than to take out the mech. Am I missing something?


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 Post subject: cover
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 4:28 pm 
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they still get bonuses for 9/10ths cover but within 100ft they can be specifically targeted, outside that range if you don't make the spot check you can only target the mech as a whole.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 5:20 pm 
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i would not call the plots of mechs mostly visible; in most of the mech illustrations, the pilot is not readily apparent, and the cut-away in the 'inside the mech' section shows a pilot using a periscope; i imagine that the 'plainly visible' crew was meant to apply to those crew manning weapons that are mounted on top or otherwise exposed, or characters hanging off the sides of a mech

and the size thing was mentioned, in that the mechs were created mostly in 3.0 rules... the post is somewhere around ehre, but i'm too lazy to search for it

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 Post subject: Answered my own question
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 6:26 pm 
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Ah, found it.

goodmangames wrote:

I started writing these rules back in 2002, long before 3.5 came about. Personally, I dislike the 3.5 facing rules. So I kept the mechs at unusual dimensions. For example, the scorpion mech (page 113) should obviously not have a square shape. The same goes for monsters; the giant worms (page 204) should be rectangular. I managed to argue this past the developer and editor... but at the very last approval stage, White Wolf wanted the spacing changed to be more 3.5-ish (as in, square). This is a reasonable decision, given that 3.5 is now the standard. But of course, it happened at the very, very end of the process, after the layout was finished, and there wasn't a lot of time to focus on it. :)

So, in answer to your question, the mech faces are like that because I still run 3.0 facing in my campaign. With some of the taller mechs it makes sense (most of their bulk is vertical, not horizontal), but not with all of them. If you're a stickler for these kinds of things, I'd just change to the standard dimensions. For me, I still use non-square facings, so I'm probably not the best person to ask on this subject. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Two unrelated questions
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 10:56 pm 
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mythfish wrote:
Targeting crew members
If I understand correctly, within 100 feet, an attacker can automatically target any visible crew members without making a spot check. This seems too easy. Except in special circumstances, the pilot will always be at least partially visible (so he can see to pilot) and even with concealment bonuses it's way easier to take out the pilot than to take out the mech. Am I missing something?


It IS easier to take out the pilot than the mech, which is why there's the Spot check for targets more than 100 feet away. In my early games a great deal of mech combat took place at very long ranges with steam cannon barrages, so there was little opportunity to target crew. When mechs did close to within 100 feet, any crew member exposed enough to target the enemy pilot was himself an immediate target... and most crew don't survive long when attacked by a mech-sized weapon. The pilots were almost always well concealed, anyway (90% cover, if visible at all), so it was more about crew getting picked off than pilots. But overall, most of the time the risk of closing to within 100 feet meant you were vulnerable to counterattack from the other mech, or (if on foot) well within trampling range, so to gain the benefit of that "free potshot within 100 feet" you have to take some dangerous risks.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 3:30 am 
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got you a question on mech construction;

according to the book, you ahve a fixed cost based on mech type that covers "woorkspace, tools, scaffolding, magical components(where nessesary) and other such things"

how much of this stuff is re-usable if someone set up a permanent shop for mech production?

i mean, i would assume that these costs are if you are setting up a one-time shop to produce a mech somewhere and never intend to either recover the cost of construciton gear or re-use it

i have a feeling that neither the stenians nor the legion would waste resources in this manner

say, for the sake of argument, that i was planning on producing 6 identical huge clockwork mechs, which have a fixed cost of 4000g above and beyond the cost of materials and labor, would i end up paying 6 times 4000g (a whopping 24,000g :shock: ) or could i reuse the scafolding in producing the 6 completely identical mechs?

how about if i was producing mechs of different design? say, i wanted to make the afforementioned 6 huge mechs, and one collosal II mech? would i be paying the 28k gold for each individual mech, 8k gold for two different sets of tools and scafolding, 4k gold for one set of tools and scafolding, or some mixture thereof (say 50% loss re-tooling for the diffrent mech size)

as to that, how much of necromantic and animated mechs would be reclaimable? i would assume most of the necromantic mech's fixed cost goes into magic components (and probably a similar amount of animated mech's cost, since animated is more closely related to the mechanical mechs than necromantic)

just so you know, i had this idea for a mech that's really neat, and semi-inspired by the mother/daughter mech team from the core book :twisted: i'm just trying to see how feasable this idea is and if money would be an issue (depending on how this pans out, expect to see the idea posted in the forum)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 3:47 am 
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also, if you fire link some weapons, how much does that cut down the crew requirement, if at all?

(i'm thinking, twin huge steam cannon fire linked and aimed/fired by the pilot of the mech, but i suppose it could apply to any weapon that can be effectively firelinked)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 6:51 am 
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An issue ragarding saving throws... the mech`s saves are added to the pilot`s ones? For exemple, a gargantuan clockwoek mech have a fortitude save of -2 and a reflexes save of +2. Do these modifiers stack with those of the pilot? or are indipendent saves?
If are indipendent how do you save from disintegrate?

Always on saves...in Steam warriors you put any steam powers for improving a character save? I dont` want to use magic items with my steamborg...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 11:28 pm 
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What are the penalties when you only have half your crew requirements? The book suggests there's problems, but then it doesn't say anything else beyond that some guns are gonna go unmanned. My characters are in a Magwagon (Crew Requirement: 4 (guns: 2)) and beyond the pilot only one of the others are able to really man the mech. everyone else is about to engage in melee with raiders. And the only other crew member available is currently having to de-clog the steam cannon (he got a natural one on his attack roll) while the pilot attempts to stomp on people.

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