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 Post subject: Steam power combinations
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 2:52 pm 
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I've found myself in a steam power rut, using the same combinations over and over again. Help me break out of it. What are some interesting steam power combinations you and/or your players have come up with?

I'm particularly interested in ones that are not necessarily designed for a specific purpose, but are more generally useful. But whatever you want to tell me about is good.

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 Post subject: combo
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:26 am 
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my coglayer has discovered the joy of augmenting existing equipment, using an existing steam-powered item as a baseline then augmenting it. it turns out this allows him to get quite a bit of bang for his buck without having to spend as many powers on a single device.

example:
Viktors Custom Buzzsaw (my player fell in love with steampowered buzzsaws when we started playing)

Start with A regular buzz saw; add a boiler+flywheel combo (combined for reduced size; add a pump, automator, and ranger, and what you get is a blade shooting buzzsaw that can reload itself, and inflicts a respectable 2d10 damage with a 19-20/x3 critical effect. He plans to add spark generators to it to add electrical damage to its melee attacks.

Bong er... water pipe... of healing
Combine a cauterizerx2, with a fog generator, and what you get is a cloud of healing steam, healing 2d4 damage (at 1 pt per round) to all those breathing in it's soothing vapors. (really burns through the healing reagents fast though)


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 Post subject: Re: combo
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:37 am 
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modus666 wrote:
Bong er... water pipe... of healing
Combine a cauterizerx2, with a fog generator, and what you get is a cloud of healing steam, healing 2d4 damage (at 1 pt per round) to all those breathing in it's soothing vapors. (really burns through the healing reagents fast though)


Ha, very nice.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:19 pm 
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I'm new to the whole steam power thing. Trying to make a flamethrower, and not sure if I'm getting this right. Mind checking?

-Pilot light for 1d4 fire damage, with an area (light) of 5ft square
-Add one amplifier for 1d6 damage, with an area of 10ft square
-Add a second amplifier for 1d8 damage and 20ft square

That part is easy enough. Here is where I get caught, with the pump:
-Add a pump to give that a range of 80 feet. Does this mean it is now a line attack? Do I shoot 20ft fireballs anywhere within 80ft? Help!

And finally, adding a billows turns this into a 20ft cone, correct?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:36 pm 
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Laughingcarp wrote:
I'm new to the whole steam power thing. Trying to make a flamethrower, and not sure if I'm getting this right. Mind checking?

-Pilot light for 1d4 fire damage, with an area (light) of 5ft square
-Add one amplifier for 1d6 damage, with an area of 10ft square
-Add a second amplifier for 1d8 damage and 20ft square

That part is easy enough. Here is where I get caught, with the pump:
-Add a pump to give that a range of 80 feet. Does this mean it is now a line attack? Do I shoot 20ft fireballs anywhere within 80ft? Help!

And finally, adding a billows turns this into a 20ft cone, correct?


Give me a minute to check and read through this, but offhand that doesn't sound like enough amps to be getting that kind of range.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:45 pm 
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Arek wrote:
Laughingcarp wrote:
I'm new to the whole steam power thing. Trying to make a flamethrower, and not sure if I'm getting this right. Mind checking?

-Pilot light for 1d4 fire damage, with an area (light) of 5ft square
-Add one amplifier for 1d6 damage, with an area of 10ft square
-Add a second amplifier for 1d8 damage and 20ft square

That part is easy enough. Here is where I get caught, with the pump:
-Add a pump to give that a range of 80 feet. Does this mean it is now a line attack? Do I shoot 20ft fireballs anywhere within 80ft? Help!

And finally, adding a billows turns this into a 20ft cone, correct?


Give me a minute to check and read through this, but offhand that doesn't sound like enough amps to be getting that kind of range.


Oh, well, I'm wrong.

Congratulations, if something gets within 80 feet of you, you can torch it at a slight penalty unless it closes to 40 feet.

I'd leave it up to the DM whether it's a touch attack or a line. And, yeah, you get a cone out of it with a billows.

Personally, for dungeon crawls, I sorta like making a Force Generator and then hooking up Amps to it, until you end up with an device that can be used to make impromptu objects--like S-shaped walls, squares, cubes, slabs, rings, and bins. I even worked out the area for these shapes...


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:53 pm 
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Laughingcarp wrote:
I'm new to the whole steam power thing. Trying to make a flamethrower, and not sure if I'm getting this right. Mind checking?

-Pilot light for 1d4 fire damage, with an area (light) of 5ft square
-Add one amplifier for 1d6 damage, with an area of 10ft square
-Add a second amplifier for 1d8 damage and 20ft square

So far so good.
Quote:
That part is easy enough. Here is where I get caught, with the pump:
-Add a pump to give that a range of 80 feet. Does this mean it is now a line attack? Do I shoot 20ft fireballs anywhere within 80ft? Help!

There is a lot of room for GM/player interpretation where steam powers are concerned. In some other thread somewhere which I can't seem to find now, it was suggested that you could make either a normal attack against a single target with a to-hit roll, or a line attack with Reflex saves and all that, but the choice had to be at the creation of the device.

In this case the 20ft is still only for the amount of light it puts out. To shoot area effect fireballs, you would need to add a lobber to the device.
Quote:
And finally, adding a billows turns this into a 20ft cone, correct?

Correct, but if you wanted a device that had the option of firing either a cone or a line, you would need a nozzle as well.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:57 pm 
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Arek wrote:
Personally, for dungeon crawls, I sorta like making a Force Generator and then hooking up Amps to it, until you end up with an device that can be used to make impromptu objects--like S-shaped walls, squares, cubes, slabs, rings, and bins. I even worked out the area for these shapes...


One of the players in my campaign had one of those. It was really annoying.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:03 pm 
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mythfish wrote:
Arek wrote:
Personally, for dungeon crawls, I sorta like making a Force Generator and then hooking up Amps to it, until you end up with an device that can be used to make impromptu objects--like S-shaped walls, squares, cubes, slabs, rings, and bins. I even worked out the area for these shapes...


One of the players in my campaign had one of those. It was really annoying.


I'm good friends with my DM, so I get to annoy him as much as I like. He pays it back by setting elaborate traps for us.

In my case, the F-Box got used to make a block to climb on top of, and then a large chunk of treasure got tossed onto a bin.

And because Arek the Steamborg had a move speed of 40, it was hypothetically possible he could have served as party transport by making a floating platform around him for everyone to stand/ride on, while he did all the legging it.

Other power combos I'm intrigued by are things like Iron Arms, and I kicked around the idea of a Focuser, which let you make a narrow, intense line/blade of the energy in question.

...Meaning you could make a Cold, Electricity, Fire, or Force sword.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:45 am 
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Thanks for the timely answers. It has been brought to light that it would just be a lot easier for me to use a flame nozzle. That then raises the question as to whether I can add steam powers to a flame nozzle, or just other steam gear in general. Yes? No?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:39 am 
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Laughingcarp wrote:
Thanks for the timely answers. It has been brought to light that it would just be a lot easier for me to use a flame nozzle. That then raises the question as to whether I can add steam powers to a flame nozzle, or just other steam gear in general. Yes? No?


Yes indeed!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:36 pm 
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Good to know :) Doesn't that seem a bit powerful though? An amplifier attached to a flame nozzle increases the range to 30 feet, the reflex DC to 17, and the damage from 2d8 to 3d8? (using the weapon damage increase charts in Savage Species, not sure how else to figure that out. Should it maybe be 3d6?

All that for 400gp, achievable at 2nd level. Heck, you could even add more amplifiers at that point. I guess thats where the DM has to jump in.

And another question: Can steam powers be integrated with normal weapons? I'm thinking specifically of adding a spark generator to a non-steam melee weapon.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:55 pm 
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Laughingcarp wrote:
Good to know :) Doesn't that seem a bit powerful though? An amplifier attached to a flame nozzle increases the range to 30 feet, and the damage from 2d8 to 3d8? (using the weapon damage increase charts in Savage Species, not sure how else to figure that out. Should it may be be 3d6?

All that for 400gp, achievable at 2nd level.


A flame nozzle with an amplifier would do 2d10 damage. Amplifiers normally increase the die type, not the number of dice (the progression is in the description of the amplifier. The range increment would be 20 feet (the base 10 plus another 10). The Reflex Save to avoid catching on fire would be DC 17). The cost for the flame nozzle + amplifier is 440gp, but also keep in mind you only get 15 shots and it costs 60gp just to refill it. And anyone with any knowledge of steam equipment will try to puncture your tank and blow you up.

Coglayers totally beat spellcasters at lower levels, but eventually the spellcasters reach a point where they're doing far more than the coglayers. Steam powers are (arguably perhaps) not unbalanced, they just provide a different power curve over the course of a character's career.

That said, there is a lot of GM adjudication necessary when using steam powers...they can get powerful pretty fast. If you feel that something is too powerful for your campaign, you can outlaw it (assuming you're the GM of course. :) ). One thing that may help bring the power down a bit is to say that each amplifier gives you an increase in damage, range, or save DC but not all three.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:25 pm 
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Okay, here's some tinkering:

Focuser
40 gp
No assistants
Small (12)
3 lbs.

A focuser is similar to a pump in basic principle, but rather than project the energy in question--be it steam, cold, electricity, light, water, fire, force--out in a direct line, it creates a constant, narrow stream of it with a limited reach. As you might imagine, this has several applications.

A focuser is basically a box with a focusing nozzle at one end. It's possible to make a tube so the nozzle can held in the hand and used like that.

A pilot light and a focuser makes a cutting torch that ignores 10 points of hardness when used on object, and it can be adjusted to make a long tongue of fire that does 1d4 fire damage on a touch attack and counts as a light melee weapon, and can be used to set objects on fire.

The same basic principle holds true with other energy types--the focuser can either make an extremely intense, extremely-short range form of the energy in question, or it can be set to make an easy-to-use melee weapon.

There are some conditions for amplifiers and focusers, though. An amp set into a focuser can either improve the damage by a step, or it can improve the reach by 5 feet, and without the presence of a Nozzle steampower, must be designated which feature it improves--damage or reach. A Nozzle, however, allows you to switch which feature amps improve with a move action.

Example uses:

Cutting torch/Flare blade: Pilot Light + Amp + Amp + Nozzle + Focuser: Creates a melee blade that hits on a touch attack. The Amps mean it can have a reach of 15 foot and do 1d4, or it can have a reach of 5 feet and do 1d8 (I think that's the right damage). Alternatively, if used as a cutting torch with both amps set to increase damage, it ignores 20 points of hardness.

Hydro/Steam Cutter: Same combination, except with that Water-lobbing steampower, or, alternatively, running direction from a source of steam. Creates an extremely high-pressure narrow stream of water or steam that has an incredibly frightening cutting power.

Shockbox/Bolt blade: Same combination, except with a spark generator as the energy source. When used to give a single "shock" effect, works sorta like a taser or shock prod: On a medium sized creature, they must succeed a Fort save or be knocked prone or stunned. As a melee weapon, has a +1 bonus to hit against people wearing metal armor, but does -2 damage due to the effect being diffused along the metal.

Burnlight: Focuser + Light generator: can be used to start fires as a standard-action on flammable material, deal 1d2 non-lethal damage on people, amps increase the damage but it remains non-lethal as it's just a sunburn unless the target a light-vulnerable creature, an undead, or on a person held down so the same spot may be focused upon for multiple rounds (then it's torture). Possibly, you could make a Lightsaber out of this and some means of converting the damage to lethal.

Cold blade: Cold elemental blade using the Focuser, amps, and nozzle. Can't think of a special effect.

Force Blade: Does Force damage, using a Focuser, a couple of amps, and a nozzle.


Last edited by Arek on Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:30 pm 
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Kinda obvious steampower combo, but one so obvious you don't think about it.

Giant Iron Arm: Iron Arm + Iron Arm. Double the size and weight, but it's also a good chunk stronger, at 22 Str (Should that be higher?) and gives an extra square of reach.

And for the steamborgs:

Integrator
300 gp (Actually, not sure on this point)
2 Assistants
Tiny Size

An Integrator is a natural creations of the Steamborgs, because it allows steampowers to be hooked into the body and controlled at a thought rather than activated by crudely throwing levers and turning cranks.

An integrator requires surgery from someone with at least 8 ranks in Heal to put into the body, and a week of recovery (no heavy activity) and practice to get used to controlling the new appendage. when the devices need a Dexterity score, they use the subject's score with a -2 penalty. A nozzle built into integrator allows for the combinations to be considered the user's primary hands, and use his or her full Dexterity.

One Integrator can be attached to two seperate combinations of steampowers at once. Doubling an integrator allows for 3 combinations. Once a combination has been Integrated, it be added onto and adjusted, but not completely discarded, and removing an intergrator requires another surgery.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:26 am 
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Arek wrote:
Kinda obvious steampower combo, but one so obvious you don't think about it.

Giant Iron Arm: Iron Arm + Iron Arm. Double the size and weight, but it's also a good chunk stronger, at 22 Str (Should that be higher?) and gives an extra square of reach.


I'm smacking my forehead right now - I never, ever considered that. Nice work.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:18 am 
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mythfish wrote:
Amplifiers normally increase the die type, not the number of dice (the progression is in the description of the amplifier. The range increment would be 20 feet (the base 10 plus another 10). The Reflex Save to avoid catching on fire would be DC 17). The cost for the flame nozzle + amplifier is 440gp, but also keep in mind you only get 15 shots and it costs 60gp just to refill it. And anyone with any knowledge of steam equipment will try to puncture your tank and blow you up...
...One thing that may help bring the power down a bit is to say that each amplifier gives you an increase in damage, range, or save DC but not all three.


Should have figured the 2d10 out. Duh. And the range on a personal flame nozzle starts at 15, so it would go to 30 (I think you're looking at the cogling nozzle, which has a range of 10). And I guess the refill cost and potential kablooie do mitigate the bonuses. While we're at it, any suggestions on how to kablooie-proof the fuel tank? If I remember there are some powers/spells somewhere that increase the hardness of any given object, but I'm assuming those'll be expensive.

I like the idea about the choices for amplifiers.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:54 am 
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walrusjester wrote:
Arek wrote:
Kinda obvious steampower combo, but one so obvious you don't think about it.

Giant Iron Arm: Iron Arm + Iron Arm. Double the size and weight, but it's also a good chunk stronger, at 22 Str (Should that be higher?) and gives an extra square of reach.


I'm smacking my forehead right now - I never, ever considered that. Nice work.


:D

Oh, I guess I'll follow the DnD rules of doubling. A Giant Arm has a Str of 24 (That's a +7 mod, which is (4 x 2) - 1.)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:26 pm 
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Laughingcarp wrote:
(I think you're looking at the cogling nozzle, which has a range of 10).

Oh yeah, my bad.

Quote:
And I guess the refill cost and potential kablooie do mitigate the bonuses. While we're at it, any suggestions on how to kablooie-proof the fuel tank? If I remember there are some powers/spells somewhere that increase the hardness of any given object, but I'm assuming those'll be expensive.

There aren't rules for it exactly, but I don't think it would be too hard to figure out a cost for armor plating or building the tank out of stronger material. If I were a coglayer who wanted to protect my fuel tank, I'd just add a force generator to it.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:53 pm 
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mythfish wrote:
Laughingcarp wrote:
(I think you're looking at the cogling nozzle, which has a range of 10).

Oh yeah, my bad.

Quote:
And I guess the refill cost and potential kablooie do mitigate the bonuses. While we're at it, any suggestions on how to kablooie-proof the fuel tank? If I remember there are some powers/spells somewhere that increase the hardness of any given object, but I'm assuming those'll be expensive.

There aren't rules for it exactly, but I don't think it would be too hard to figure out a cost for armor plating or building the tank out of stronger material. If I were a coglayer who wanted to protect my fuel tank, I'd just add a force generator to it.



Glod's Prudent Butt Cover
Amped Force generator set to make a curved force screen a small distance behind its carrier. Prevents people on that side qualifying for flanking you.
In the words of Glod Glodson, the inventor, "It keeps them dogak thieves from shankin' yer up yer drut'k."


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:23 pm 
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Great idea! That brings up the issue of "facing" though. How about integrating it directly with the tank:

Biff the firestarter's guardian angel
Biff loved fire. But after his favourite flame nozzle fuel tank detonated on his back, the newly christened steamborg decided it was high time to try prevent such disasters. A year later, roughly half of his notes were found and used by Glod to create the finished product.
This amplified force generator creates a veritable "second skin" for any object to which it is attached (and can fit in its volume). The force field takes damage before the object to which it is attached. Once the field takes 20hp of damage past its hardness, it shuts down until it receives proper maintenance (at least one hour; such as during a coglayer's morning maintenance)

I know it is a little gimped, with the shutting down and all, but I figure that makes it quite a bit more acceptable to various GMs, who would view a plain and simple force field too effective.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:42 pm 
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Laughingcarp wrote:
Great idea! That brings up the issue of "facing" though. How about integrating it directly with the tank:

Biff the firestarter's guardian angel
Biff loved fire. But after his favourite flame nozzle fuel tank detonated on his back, the newly christened steamborg decided it was high time to try prevent such disasters. A year later, roughly half of his notes were found and used by Glod to create the finished product.
This amplified force generator creates a veritable "second skin" for any object to which it is attached (and can fit in its volume). The force field takes damage before the object to which it is attached. Once the field takes 20hp of damage past its hardness, it shuts down until it receives proper maintenance (at least one hour; such as during a coglayer's morning maintenance)

I know it is a little gimped, with the shutting down and all, but I figure that makes it quite a bit more acceptable to various GMs, who would view a plain and simple force field too effective.


The area one Force generator produces is 10 square feet. That's not not a bad piece of coverage, and amps double it. So you're looking at or at most, two amps to cover just about any single object you can carry comfortably.

I'd prefer to cut out the middle man and have the curving screen behind me. Or on one side. Or above me. Or in front of me. And adjustable with a full-round action to create a roadblock in narrow places.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:01 pm 
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The 10 square feet is noted. I was looking at cubic feet though, and that ends up at a 2 by 2 by 2 cube. So doubling that gives us 4 by 4 by 4, which I feel is safer.

I've see no problem at all with the curved screen. It just isn't as safe for the single use I'm thinking of in this situation, is all.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:34 pm 
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Laughingcarp wrote:
The 10 square feet is noted. I was looking at cubic feet though, and that ends up at a 2 by 2 by 2 cube. So doubling that gives us 4 by 4 by 4, which I feel is safer.

I've see no problem at all with the curved screen. It just isn't as safe for the single use I'm thinking of in this situation, is all.


*crunches numbers*

No-o-o...The 10 square feet ends up being a cube that's 1-and-two-thirds feet square feet to one side, although I'd gladly rule that a 2-foot-cube.

And, actually, doubling a 3D object's dimensions and having it remain in proportion gives it eight times the volume. 2x2x2 is 8, but 4x4x4 is 64. I don't know how that works out on the surface area...Lemme put this three-years-so-far-of-college education to work...

So it'd be X*X*6 for surface area of a cube...

A 2-foot-cube would have 24 square feet of surface area. A 4-foot-cube would have...96 square feet.

So you could cover plenty of objects with a Force Generator and 1 amp, and most of them with two or three. Assuming you get DM permission to use mathematical and not DnD doubling, with 5 amps you could be making plenty of defensive measures with 320 square feet to play with.

Just some number crunching for the sake of staying in practice.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:07 pm 
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Is that for a solid (dense) cube, or just six even sides to form a box?

Otherwise, seems whoever wrote the description of the force generator bungled the numbers a little.

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