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 Post subject: 5E
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:06 pm 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer
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Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:46 am
Posts: 45
Location: Houston, Texas
I am interested in getting other people's takes on 5e and especially Hoard of the Dragon Queen. As I've said before, my group takes turns having people GM and the GM chooses the system. We have a Marvel/Star Wars guy, a Pathfinder guy, an old school everything guy (he practically only plays stuff that went out of print ten years ago- great stuff!), and me, the smorgasbord guy. Well, we also have a guy that plays 5E, used to play DnD when he was a child (I think Advanced), and started GMing 5E. He is getting his feet wet GMing and he had us sit down and play Horde of the Dragon Queen. We are still going through it.

While I like the mechanics okay, I feel like the game is just slow. It is also guilty of dangling what you will get one day if you just keep trucking away - like a Korean RPG. We have almost wiped several times and the GM continues to say, "Why would you handle it 'that' way?" It just isn't settling well with me. Fortunately, I was able to try out DCC as a one shot when the GM had other plans. Now I'm dreading going back to 5E.

The one redeeming factor is my character. I'm able to make a fantastic dual wielding fighter/rogue that just wrecks people. Trouble is, we are facing like 15 guys with magic or plate every combat! I mean, it isn't that it is difficult (although all but one of us has died repeatedly), it is just a slog...

Am I being unfair? If I had mighty deeds of arms or the ability to roll a crit every time I back stabbed, I believe it would be tolerable...

I don't want to destroy my friend who is running, after all, it is his first time. How do I encourage him to try something he isn't so comfortable with?

David Rose

P.S.-He is going to finish it, so please, no spoilers. We are currently in the 2nd caravan.


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 Post subject: Re: 5E
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:47 pm 
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Cold-Hearted Immortal
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Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:46 pm
Posts: 2600
Location: Left Coast, USA
FLGS: Bizarro World
I can't really comment on 5e itself, only having looked at some of the rules for it.

But the issue you're describing sounds more like a difference in style. DCC tends to be more "open", open to what fits the moment and circumstances, open to frankensteining new ideas into a campaign, open to interpretation not dogma, open to exploration. This tends to be true of older games.

Meanwhile, many people find newer D&D (from this century) to be more about complexity of character features, and 'staying on track' in an adventure. The rules work a certain way and you will use the rules.

Meanwhile meanwhile, I played 3e as if it was an earlier game and never had any problems with it. It was comparatively recently that I discovered that many people took the 3e skill system to mean "You don't describe what your character is doing. Instead you roll a skill check, and then the DM tells you what you did and what happened". But me, I was still asking people to describe what they were doing to disable that trap, and proceeding accordingly based on what they said. I was running a 'new' game as if it was an 'old' game.

Long story short: It may not be the system, but the way he's running it that's putting you off. He may be worried about the 'rules' instead of doing whatever it takes to keep the session moving. IF that is the issue, switching systems isn't going to help (or perhaps, not that much).

I wish I could point to a single thing and say "This! He just needs to read this and it'll all be fixed!", but I can't... I'm trying to dredge up the name of a blog that's been silent for awhile, but had great food for thought on this subject. If it comes to me, I'll chime back in... The Alexandrian has some excellent GM advice from time to time, but that's not the main one I'm thinking of... Also Raven Crowking's Nest is recommended as well.

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Playing RPGs since 1977 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.

—Here Be DCC Monsters—

VOORAK, L, Hunter, S10, A12, Sm10, P6, I13, L15, AC 10, HP 3, Spear +0 1d8, Init 0; R 0, F 0, W -1, Holy water, Pelt, 3 iron spikes, 1d ration, 4-leaf clover (Find secret doors) (+1), Com +1

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 Post subject: Re: 5E
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:11 pm 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer
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Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:46 am
Posts: 45
Location: Houston, Texas
Gnome,

I didn't realize that Raven had a blog. I shall frequent it often.

Yes, I fear that it is just the pains of growth that I see, not just the downsides of 5E. My friend is a married guy with kids, a sales career with a major corporation, and not a lot of free time. I doubt I can force feed him Robin Law's laws or get him to read anything of great length, still, I need to try. Perhaps my group should do a better job of pulling the curtain back and explaining how we each run our games and how close or far we stray from the source material/adventure.

In truth, the problem may be with my perception- growing impatient and grumbling when I should be coming up with ways of tactfully teaching.

Thank you for your perspective,
David Rose


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 Post subject: Re: 5E
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:16 pm 
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Deft-Handed Cutpurse

Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:14 pm
Posts: 210
5E is to Classic D&D like Twilight is to Nosferatu.

Also it tastes GREAT at first but the more you partake of it the more you realize it isn't really cake but instead is some cheap cake substitute with zero fat icing.

5E is the Devil, momma told me so.


5E just ran over your dog, on purpose.


ok so maybe I might have some issues with the system.

No really it just flat out ran over your dog.


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 Post subject: Re: 5E
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:12 pm
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Location: Virginia, USA
FLGS: Dragonfire Games
Irrespective of the rules of 5e and its mechanics, it will not make a DM better or worse. A good or better DM is more than knowing the rules, he/she is about making the game fun. The DM should engage the players, challenge them beyond the mere ritual of combat. Rules are guidelines, not something carved into stone. I knew a DM and he ran several different game systems; Gamma World, Traveler, D&D, and good lordy ICE (Arm's Law, Spell Law, etc), and we always had a frickin' blast because he had us engaged. He made us role-play and those little moments in-between fighting the baddies were better than the fights themselves. Then I've had DMs that bored me out of my mind with their one-dimensional thinking and styles. Not everyone is a great DM.

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Robert E. Howard


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 Post subject: Re: 5E
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:48 am 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer
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Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:17 am
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It's hard to tell from your post what is at the root of the problem. Personally, I've been impressed with 5E when I've dabbled in it. It is what it is. I suspect a lot of the frustration for you and/or your group comes from running the Dragon Queen materials. It is a gigantic, long-as-hell railroad. The adventure path model has been incredibly popular with the Pathfinder crowd and WotC seems to be following suit. It's definitely not my cup of tea. From your frustration with your DM asking why you handled certain encounters in the wrong way, I'm guessing your group is struggling with the railroad nature of the campaign.

Obviously, there are differences between DCC RPG and 5E. You don't get mighty deeds of arms with 5E. You didn't get them with TSR era D&D either. If you can enjoy 1E or B/X, you should be able to get by with 5E assuming your DM is good and running an adventure or campaign that suits your preferences.


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 Post subject: Re: 5E
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:34 pm 
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Deft-Handed Cutpurse

Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:14 pm
Posts: 210
5E has a LOT of issues. From class imbalance (some class's just being much better in every way than others) to (soft)monster imbalance( expect a party of vets to take out CR's 6-9 levels higher than they should) some races being just better than most others, frustrating rule issues(you rolled a nat 20! Yeah well it meant nothing)they made casters more balanced with non-casters but did it in such a way as to make them worthless in many fights(literally not able to contribute meaningfully).

Monsters are in no way balanced verse many of the (optional) rules like feats that everyone uses.

Frankly it's just a mess.

I loved 5E but after running and playing in games the holes just are too big for us to ignore.

It's a great game to play and smash monsters by the truckload and reap some loot with minimal challenge.


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