Goodman Games and 4E

Harley Stroh · **Posted:** Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:03 pm

Schedule dependent (that's up to the boss), I'd be happy to run "Intro to 4E" DCC games at Gen Con. Who knows --- maybe we'd even have free giveaways like we did last year. Come play the game, leave w/ a free DCC adventure.

//H

GnomeBoy · **Posted:** Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:24 pm

Harley Stroh wrote:

Schedule dependent (that's up to the boss), .... Come play the game, leave w/ a free DCC adventure.

//H

Ah, for GenCon to be within realistic driving distance.....

CharlieRock · **Posted:** Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:48 am

What cons are going to be happening around the last week of june? or shortly thereafter?
Thanks in advance to any replies.

raptor112 · **Joined:** Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:38 pm **Posts:** 6

How about dragonMech? is it going to get upgrade to 4th edition? I really liked the setting and would like to see it get updated to 4th edition.

walrusjester · **Posted:** Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:38 pm

raptor112 wrote:

How about dragonMech? is it going to get upgrade to 4th edition? I really liked the setting and would like to see it get updated to 4th edition.

Goodman Games is weighing its options for 4E. DragonMech isn't slated to be one of the initial releases, but I know it's a setting Joseph G is fond of. And we are working on a tabletop DragonMech combat game, which you can find out about in the DragonMech forum. In my opinion, it's probably the single finest game any company will produce in the next year (but I'm co-writing it, so I have a small bias).

raptor112 · **Joined:** Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:38 pm **Posts:** 6

Thanks for the Info, I myself don't really minature games but I might buy them just for fun. I really hope you do up date it.

CharlieRock · **Posted:** Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:51 am

walrusjester wrote:

raptor112 wrote:

How about dragonMech? is it going to get upgrade to 4th edition? I really liked the setting and would like to see it get updated to 4th edition.

Goodman Games is weighing its options for 4E. DragonMech isn't slated to be one of the initial releases, but I know it's a setting Joseph G is fond of. And we are working on a tabletop DragonMech combat game, which you can find out about in the DragonMech forum. In my opinion, it's probably the single finest game any company will produce in the next year (but I'm co-writing it, so I have a small bias).

Sounds kind of like BattleTech. I loved that game. MechWarrior (FASA) still holds my personal record for longest running single campaign (from '88 to '92).

walrusjester · **Posted:** Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:20 am

If you liked BattleTech, I think you'll like DragonMech Battles. We've got a combat system that moves faster and has more detail, and we're playing up the pilot/crew aspects of the genre.

DCCfan · **Posted:** Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:57 pm

goodmangames wrote:

DCCfan wrote:

I plan on going to GENCON this year with my son. If we want to play test 4E will you walk us through the new version at the DCC classic? I guess what I'm really asking is do we have to purchase the core books just to play or can we buy an event ticket and show up to learn the 4E game?

Good question. Traditionally our DCC games are oriented toward people who already know the basic rules, but this year we'll have a lot of people new to 4E. I assume that WotC will have some introductory 4E games, but we'll have to see. When we start scheduling DCC events I'll take into account the newness factor of 4E and try to find room for some introductory events.

The DCC tournament will most definitely not be the place for 4E newbies. Like every year, it will be a difficult adventure, and we're designing it on the assumption that participants have some 4E experience. (About 3-4 months of play time is the basic assumption, since that's the most anyone could have by the time Gen Con rolls around.)

I hope you find the room. If you do me and my son will be there with dice in hand. I want to give 4E a try before I invest any money into it. I think GENCON is the place and the staff at Goodman Games are the people to do it. Everyone I have met has been super nice and easy to talk to. I also apreciate the fact that you don't just concentrate on the sale. If I want to just talk about gaming and have a conversation your staff won't say hey I would love to talk to you but I've got customers to help out(person in WOTC uniform turns back on you).

fathead · **Posted:** Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:37 am

DCCfan wrote:

goodmangames wrote:

DCCfan wrote:

I plan on going to GENCON this year with my son. If we want to play test 4E will you walk us through the new version at the DCC classic? I guess what I'm really asking is do we have to purchase the core books just to play or can we buy an event ticket and show up to learn the 4E game?

Good question. Traditionally our DCC games are oriented toward people who already know the basic rules, but this year we'll have a lot of people new to 4E. I assume that WotC will have some introductory 4E games, but we'll have to see. When we start scheduling DCC events I'll take into account the newness factor of 4E and try to find room for some introductory events.

The DCC tournament will most definitely not be the place for 4E newbies. Like every year, it will be a difficult adventure, and we're designing it on the assumption that participants have some 4E experience. (About 3-4 months of play time is the basic assumption, since that's the most anyone could have by the time Gen Con rolls around.)

I hope you find the room. If you do me and my son will be there with dice in hand. I want to give 4E a try before I invest any money into it. I think GENCON is the place and the staff at Goodman Games are the people to do it. Everyone I have met has been super nice and easy to talk to. I also apreciate the fact that you don't just concentrate on the sale. If I want to just talk about gaming and have a conversation your staff won't say hey I would love to talk to you but I've got customers to help out(person in WOTC uniform turns back on you).

DCCFan,

A few of us are trying to put together a "Dungeon Crawl Wednesday" event at GenCon. I plan for it to be a free event, and we'll be running some 4E games. I recalled your post, and wanted to extend the invite. If you and your son would like to stop by, we'd love to have you. Here is the thread:

http://www.goodman-games.com/forums/vie ... php?t=3294

AvatarArt · **Posted:** Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:51 pm

Jeff LaSala wrote:

I don't know, AvatarArt. Stats blocks can take more time than you think. Putting out two versions of something as massive as Castle Whiterock, for example, would be pretty labor intensive.

Certainly doing something Whiterock-sized would be a Herculean project. With that in mind, isn't it sensible to get more mileage from said project via offering the same big book(s) to both audiences instead of just one?

And after following the RPG Superstar contest, I am under no illusions as to the difficulty of stat blocks. But its certainly seems doable, especially that the end result would have an additional market for each product.

In any case, please make more system neutral materials such as the GM Gems book coming out.

Thank you.

CharlieRock · **Posted:** Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:00 pm

It seems to me that it is faster and easier to convert stats over from D&D3.5 to C&C then the other way around. I'm switching Castle Whiterock over now. Still on the red book (not in a hurry since our current campaign has a bit further to go.)

Treebore · **Posted:** Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:30 pm

CharlieRock wrote:

It seems to me that it is faster and easier to convert stats over from D&D3.5 to C&C then the other way around. I'm switching Castle Whiterock over now. Still on the red book (not in a hurry since our current campaign has a bit further to go.)

Once I got used to it I just convert as I run it. Definitely easy to go 3E to C&C.

CharlieRock · **Posted:** Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:04 pm

Treebore wrote:

CharlieRock wrote:

It seems to me that it is faster and easier to convert stats over from D&D3.5 to C&C then the other way around. I'm switching Castle Whiterock over now. Still on the red book (not in a hurry since our current campaign has a bit further to go.)

Once I got used to it I just convert as I run it. Definitely easy to go 3E to C&C.

Yeah, but if I make notes I don't even have to break out my d20 books.

Nahat Anoj · **Joined:** Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:11 pm **Posts:** 74

I'm curious. Ari Marmell, a freelancer who has done stuff for WotC and right now is doing some stuff for Necromancer Games, helped playtest 4e. By virtue of his playtest experience, he is writing up some 4e stuff for NG even though only he can see it! (he's the only who signed an NDA) So when WotC finally gets the GSL written up, NG should have something done and published relatively quickly. I've heard that one other 3rd party had a similar thing going on, but I can't think of who it is right now.

My question is, does GG have their own "inside man" similar to Ari? That is, someone who playtested or got a good enough look at the rules to get started on a 4e adventure? Obviously, this person couldn't reveal anything about the rules, and I don't want them to (well, I do, but I realize that's an impossibility

).

In any case, I wish WotC would get the GSL ready as soon as possible so people could get cracking.

Istor · **Joined:** Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:22 pm **Posts:** 9

Looking forward to DCC and other products in 4e. I pre-ordered everything coming out for 4e from now until August and was hoping that GG was one of the third party publishers that were on board.

Hopefully I'll be able to pick up everything for 4e you've got at Gencon this year, if that's enough time to get products out.

JediOre · **Posted:** Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:11 pm

Istor wrote:

I pre-ordered everything coming out for 4e from now until August . . . .

Istor, how much did that set you back? Just how much is WotC wanting from each player and each DM it play the game?

Seben-PistonRager · **Joined:** Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:52 am **Posts:** 85

walrusjester wrote:

raptor112 wrote:

How about dragonMech? is it going to get upgrade to 4th edition? I really liked the setting and would like to see it get updated to 4th edition.

Goodman Games is weighing its options for 4E. DragonMech isn't slated to be one of the initial releases, but I know it's a setting Joseph G is fond of. And we are working on a tabletop DragonMech combat game, which you can find out about in the DragonMech forum. In my opinion, it's probably the single finest game any company will produce in the next year (but I'm co-writing it, so I have a small bias).

I should have read the other forums more.... I just started working on 4th Ed style DragonMech... Hmm... maybe I should make some direct contact to see if I could get some freelancer work...

DaveMage · **Posted:** Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:03 pm

So what's the backup plan if there's no OGL/GSL?

Nahat Anoj · **Joined:** Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:11 pm **Posts:** 74

DaveMage wrote:

So what's the backup plan if there's no OGL/GSL?

We don't know. I'm kinda sorta hoping WotC will at least be willing to license D&D to GG for the sake of writing adventures.

fathead · **Posted:** Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:32 am

DaveMage wrote:

So what's the backup plan if there's no OGL/GSL?

Joseph has still given every indication that when the GSL is offered, Goodman will jump on board...so unless WOTC intends to withdraw the offer, I'd still expect GG to go that direction.

BUT...for the sake of rampant speculation and rumor (which, admittedly, I am fond of) - If there is no GSL, it really doesn't leave many other options (other than continuing to produce 3.5). My guess would be that GG might go the Paizo route.

JediOre · **Posted:** Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:45 am

fathead,

Do you know the sales numbers on the C&C modules & conversions? Would moving to Castles & Crusades be a viable business plan for Goodman Games if WotC doesn't share?

fathead · **Posted:** Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:58 am

JediOre wrote:

Do you know the sales numbers on the C&C modules & conversions?

Nope. I'm not on the Goodman staff...I'm just a loud-mouthed fan.

I'm guessing that they're good enough to continue producing the occassional adventure for them...I'm not sure if they are good enough to support GG's business...but I don't really know.

I've heard a lot of good things about C&C though. I'm going to sit down for a game at GenCon this year.

JediOre wrote:

Would moving to Castles & Crusades be a viable business plan for Goodman Games if WotC doesn't share?

Good question. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be an option, should WOTC retract the GSL offer.

Treebore · **Posted:** Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:00 pm

fathead wrote:

JediOre wrote:

Do you know the sales numbers on the C&C modules & conversions?

Nope. I'm not on the Goodman staff...I'm just a loud-mouthed fan.

I'm guessing that they're good enough to continue producing the occassional adventure for them...I'm not sure if they are good enough to support GG's business...but I don't really know.

I've heard a lot of good things about C&C though. I'm going to sit down for a game at GenCon this year.

JediOre wrote:

Would moving to Castles & Crusades be a viable business plan for Goodman Games if WotC doesn't share?

Good question. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be an option, should WOTC retract the GSL offer.

If the 4E GSL is a washout I would say that Joe only has three options, or a combination of them. One, Pathfinder is now an option. Simply by continuing to publish under the 3.5 OGL if not officially partnering with Paizo. Two, Eldritch Sorcery. Try and make their own run with their own game system. Three is the one none of us want, Goodman just closing his doors.
I don't think Eldritch Sorcery, or C&C for that matter, will allow Goodman to do what he has been doing the last 3 or 4 years.

Personally I think it will be best if the 4E GSL situation works. That way Joe can then afford to take some risks supporting other games, like C&C, Eldritch Sorcery, Dragonmech, X-Crawl, etc... This way we all get at least a little bit of what we want.

Nahat Anoj · **Joined:** Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:11 pm **Posts:** 74

DaveMage wrote:

So what's the backup plan if there's no OGL/GSL?

Well, thank goodness we'll never have to know! From this announcement:

Quote:

Wizards of the Coast is pleased to announce that third-party publishers will be allowed to publish products compatible with the Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition game system under the new Dungeons & Dragons 4E Game System License (D&D 4E GSL). This royalty-free license will replace the former d20 System Trademark License (STL), and will have a System Reference Document (SRD) available for referencing permissible content.

The D&D 4E GSL will allow third-party publishers to create roleplaying game products in fantasy settings with the D&D 4th Edition rules, and publishers who register with WotC will be granted the right to use a version of the D&D logo that denotes the product as compatible with the D&D 4th Edition Roleplaying Game, in accordance with WotC’s terms and conditions. The effective start date for sales of D&D 4E GSL publications will be October 1, 2008.

The license associated SRD will be available on June 6, 2008, at no cost. A small group of publishers received advanced notice and will receive these documents prior to June 6, at no cost, in order to prepare for publication of compatible materials by the effective start date. If you haven’t already been contacted by WotC, you will be able to access the documents on the Wizards website beginning on June 6, 2008.

Wizards is also working on the details of a second royalty-free license, the d20 Game System License (d20 GSL). This license will allow third-party publishers to create roleplaying game products in non-fantasy settings with the 4E rules. The exact details for the d20 GSL will be released as they become available.

I can't wait for GG to spill the beans on the first 4e DCCs ...

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