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 Post subject: So how is Goodman Games going to adjust to 4E?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:41 am 
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Cold-Blooded Diabolist

Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:50 pm
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Location: Elfrida, Arizona
Looks like pretty concrete proof that 4E is being announced at GenCon over on ENWorld.

So Joe, assuming you do get confirmation of this at GenCon, what are your thoughts on what your going to do with Goodman Games, the DCC line in particular, etc...?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:02 am 
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Wild-Eyed Zealot

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My hope: more support for C&C - an Áereth C&C Compendium, containing only the rules crunch for the setting, including maybe a few additional base classes, would be awesome!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:12 am 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:25 am
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And how will this impact the posted release schedule - if at all?

(Hopefully this will have no impact on Whiterock, for example.)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:05 am 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

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If they're doing a license, I hope they keep on chugging along and go back and update the best-sellers to the new version.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:58 am 
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Cold-Blooded Diabolist

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Cardinal wrote:
My hope: more support for C&C - an Áereth C&C Compendium, containing only the rules crunch for the setting, including maybe a few additional base classes, would be awesome!



I don't see Joe switching his business plan to focus on something other than the primary D&D rules set.

One good thing is that hopefully many more people will switch to C&C now and make it worth it for Joe to do more products related to C&C.

Or at least continue doing 1E adaptations, since they are the most convenient to convert to C&C.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:01 am 
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Wild-Eyed Zealot

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How about dual-statting (C&C + D&D3.5 *or* C&C + D&D4.0) all future DCCs? Maybe even the reprints?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:26 am 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

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Cardinal wrote:
How about dual-statting (C&C + D&D3.5 *or* C&C + D&D4.0) all future DCCs? Maybe even the reprints?

If it's more cost-effective than using that space for more adventure, they'll do it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:15 pm 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

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Treebore wrote:
One good thing is that hopefully many more people will switch to C&C now and make it worth it for Joe to do more products related to C&C.


Now that we hear more about it though, I think the opposite is more likely to happen. 4e is supposed to be reducing the amount of DM prep work needed and simplify combat, which is basically C&C's main attraction (or at least one of the main ones).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:22 am 
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Cold-Hearted Immortal

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The announcement was indeed made here at GenCon. We don’t have anything official to announce yet, but it is safe to say that Goodman Games will be supporting D&D for some time to come.

The 4e announcement doesn’t change any of our scheduled releases. Whiterock flew off the shelves at GenCon, and will be made available just as soon as the full print run gets in.

You won’t be disappointed --- it is cooler than I could have hoped for (and I had some pretty high expectations).

//H

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:55 pm 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:09 pm
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Location: Rockville, MD
I am trying to figure out a way to just appraoch the 4Ed anouncment with trepidation. But I cannot get even that far.

I feel degected and forlorn. I don't want this game to be digitized in any way. I don't want for fee bonus material. I don't want digital subcriptions to online only materials. I dread online only character and adventure tracking management.

And don't tell me it is optional. I can't stand to be told there is all this extra "enhancement", "bonus", "value added" material available that is available only on a subcription basis. It's like if you don't get it you are a second class citizen and it you do pay then you're "in the exculsive club" even though you might not use any of the extras in the end.

It should all be free. The game is a book, pen and paper game. Online content is there to supplement and enhance the experience should you decide to use it. Don't charge me for tools to streamline character creation, nor adventure tracking and running. Or at the very least charge me one time. I hate subscribing to online content.

Goodman Games forums are about the only ones I read and participate in. The community is thoughtful, helpful and is here to support and back up and enhance already solid procuct. But if the forum and Presters and previews and enhancements cost a subscription I would not accept it.

4Ed might be "better" than 3.5 but its presentation, support structure, cost, and delivery seems to be a true hindrance to my ability to accept. As many have said "thank god I have tons of 3.5 to go". I certainly do also, but my zeal for it is only slightly higher than my desire to play 1st edition (almost nil). I wish the publisher's plans did not effect me so, but the reality is otherwise. A vigorously supported product with a multitude of in print(for cost) and online(for free) materials makes for a vibrant experience.

Eric.


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 Post subject: Ears perk up
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:35 am 
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Ill-Fated Peasant

Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:03 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Hanover Park
Hi all,

This is the very answer I joined the forum to read!

~Scott "-enkainen" Casper


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:27 am 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer
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Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 18
Location: Spain
Well, I am also worried about this fourth edition thing. Here we have tons of 3.5 books and adventures (including those Published by Devir, which is the company licensed in Spain by Wizards to translate D&D), enough for almost two reencarnations. We too dislike this on-line suscription method and all that stuff about D&D Insider.
Well, lets see what happen. Hope everything remains the same and you can continue publishing Dungeon Crawl Classic... whatever the edition.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:19 am 
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Cold-Hearted Immortal

Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:02 am
Posts: 1787
Location: On the run.
If the info given to us at GenCon is accurate, you won't need anything more than the rule books, dice, and pen and paper to play 4e. (And - if you like - your favorite DCC. :twisted:)

The online bit was presented as a supplement to the game, not intregral to game play itself. If it helps you can think of it as a D&D supplement in the way that the Forgotten Realms material is a supplement --- FR could be described as a key part of WoTC's offerings, but you don't need any of the books to have exciting D&D games.

Pencil, paper, dice and your imagination. The same game it has always been. :)

//H

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:42 pm 
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Chaos-Summoning Sorcerer
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Yeah, their emphasis on the electronic bonus components in the GenCon announcement had me feeling a bit down, too, but after doing more research I've come to realize that as Harley says it'll still be a good solid game without all those bells and whistles. I'm actually kind of excited about 4e now.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:09 pm 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:25 am
Posts: 15
Location: Gainesville, FL
Harley Stroh wrote:
The 4e announcement doesn’t change any of our scheduled releases. Whiterock flew off the shelves at GenCon, and will be made available just as soon as the full print run gets in.

You won’t be disappointed --- it is cooler than I could have hoped for (and I had some pretty high expectations).

//H


*whew*

Thank you!

I'm not going to be upgrading to 4.0 so I'm glad this one will get printed in time.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:48 pm 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 43
Ludyee wrote:
And don't tell me it is optional. I can't stand to be told there is all this extra "enhancement", "bonus", "value added" material available that is available only on a subcription basis. It's like if you don't get it you are a second class citizen and it you do pay then you're "in the exculsive club" even though you might not use any of the extras in the end.

Did you buy every possible 3E book? Because otherwise, it amounts to the same thing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:08 pm 
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Hard-Bitten Adventurer
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I don't see 4e is a threat. It's more like a codification of stuff we already do.

*On-line play? We already do play-by-posts on the forum. I know there are services out there for real time play. This way we just do it with graphics. No big switch.

*Subscription basis? Wizards already releases new books every month, and yeah, I usually buy them. Not so different from charging me $10 per month. Heck, I'm already on Goodman's subscription list --- they beat WoTC to the punch. :twisted:

*Streamlined rules? We all house rule AoO and grapple anyhow. No big deal.

.......Wizards gets to drive sales of new rule books, DCCs get a boost, and maybe I'll play with people that aren't local to me. All in all, 4e seems pretty familiar. More like edition 3.75.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:58 pm 
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Hard-Bitten Adventurer
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I, for one, welcome our new 4e Overlords.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:13 pm 
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Deft-Handed Cutpurse
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Thank you, Kent Brockman! :D

Yeah, I had the same initial reaction as Dieter, but after reading some of the interviews afterward, I'm thinking, "Huh, might not be so bad..." Is it necessary, O Fellow Lovers of 3e? Not really ... things were going fine as is from a playing and DMing standpoint. But it was inevitable.

The EN World homepage -- http://www.enworld.org/ -- has pulled out good snippets from the initial wave of 4e news, and a lot of it sounds intriguing. It's certainly not as traumatic a switch as the jump from 2nd edition to 3rd, and it sounds like we've already been seeing some of the new stuff in the "Races of..." and "Complete..." series, such as racial substitution levels.

I'm keeping an open mind. Necessary or not, 4e is on the way, and we'll be seeing a lot more of it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:52 pm 
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Steely-Eyed Heathen-Slayer
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I'm kind of a rules geek. Honestly, I'm all manner of geek, but mixed in there is rules geek.
I like playing with the rules, finding the hidden treasures and strange dead-ends...not as a power-gamer, but as a way to reverse-engineer the logic behind the game. It's like a puzzle.
Like I said, "geek."
So given all this I'm a little intrigued to see what the new system actually delivers as far as ease-of-play, ease-of-prep, and fun.
I particularly like what I'm hearing about dynamic battlefields, actually MOVING around in combat...I try to write scenarios that fluid in the existing rules-set (if you bought Castle Whiterock or Palace in the Wastes, you already - or will soon - know what I'm talking about), but it is not easy...hopefully this will see a reversal of that.

So I say bring on 4E...we'll tear it apart to see how it works and keep on writing some mighty fine modules along the way!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:27 am 
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Deft-Handed Cutpurse

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 4:32 pm
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Location: St. Paul, MN
I for one am psyched up about 4E!

I'll see what I like, and incorporate in the good stuff. Leave out the bad stuff. If the grappling and AOO rules etc are better than exist now, great. If not, keep doing the 3.5 that I'm used to.

And the possibility of maybe importing some of my Prester Maps into a digital environment that people could use around the world....whew! Heady stuff! If you haven't seen the demo, check it out on YouTube. I can't wait to see if you can import your own graphics into this. If not now, I'm sure some hackers and modders will make this a possibility in the future.

Can't wait,

Ben "superfan" Waxman

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:10 am 
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Far-Sighted Wanderer

Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:09 pm
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Location: Rockville, MD
I'm warming to the idea a bit. I do buy every D&D print release and D&D minis and DCC and WFF and JG and Midnight and Paizo stuff and others. So I definately have an expensive habit. I really like having a book to hold and shelve and pull down when I want. (I also held stubbornly to vinyl records until I had to go to CD making the switch when CDs had all sorts of bonus material that albums didn't.)

I look forward to each new print release and the possibilties it holds. I'm sure I won't want that to go away even if it means a new rules system. If I was financially smarter I would stop with 3.5 and leave it at that. I have so much more than I could ever realistically play through, I enjoy the read nonetheless.

I'll probably dive into 4th and test the waters knowing I can always swim in my large 3.5 pool if I decide I liked it better.

E.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:36 am 
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Wild-Eyed Zealot

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trancejeremy wrote:
Treebore wrote:
One good thing is that hopefully many more people will switch to C&C now and make it worth it for Joe to do more products related to C&C.


Now that we hear more about it though, I think the opposite is more likely to happen. 4e is supposed to be reducing the amount of DM prep work needed and simplify combat, which is basically C&C's main attraction (or at least one of the main ones).


The old school element is another, though - and the reliance on the SIEGE engine and DM adjudication over an abundance of rules and mechanics. I think they'll continue to serve different niches.


Personally, I don't care which edition GG produces for (I convert them all to C&C and Savage Worlds anyways) - I just hope they keep producing more and more high caliber modules! :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:51 am 
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Mighty-Thewed Reaver
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SavageRobby wrote:
Personally, I don't care which edition GG produces for (I convert them all to C&C and Savage Worlds anyways) - I just hope they keep producing more and more high caliber modules! :)


here, here! i second savagerobby! make mine goodman!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:16 pm 
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Cold-Blooded Diabolist

Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:50 pm
Posts: 415
Location: Elfrida, Arizona
Yeah, if anything it sounds like 4E might actually be easier to port over to C&C than 3E. At least the monsters, with smaller stat boxes, anyways.

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